Recap: MBS Sunday Brunch for June 26

Our topic this week was the best argument for convincing a vanilla partner to spank. Here are your thoughts.

Joey Red: Thanks to what I learned in this and other blogs and from my spanking friends, I convinced my vanilla wife of more than 25 years to spank me. Before I asked her, we talked about spanking for several weeks and I showed her articles about how spanking can spice up being intimate. After a half a bottle of wine, and when we were both in a good mood, I asked her to spank me because I liked it. Her comment: Why did you wait so long to ask? So now, it has become a part of our lives.

Bobbie Jo: Since I have not been into the scene, I think I would start with just a nice bun rub. I don't have a partner right now and I haven't started looking for one yet. But if I ever get married again (DH died last year and I never told him about my kink), I would start with the massage idea.

Neo Dom Tom: My lizard doesn't care a whit about literature. With such a woman, the best approach is to just try it out. Definitely wait until the mood is right (and you are responsible for setting the right mood – candles and sincere compliments work well), then just give her a few light spanks. Always follow with lots of nice words. Then ask if that feels OK. Then slowly, ever so slowly, begin to escalate over the course of the next few weeks. And keep talking!

Hermione: If I had to convince my partner to try spanking, I would emphasize the erotic nature of it and present it as a very arousing type of foreplay. I would include the fact that it has always been a fantasy of mine, and that he would be doing me a great service by turning my fantasy into reality. Afterward, I would tell him how much I enjoyed it and that I couldn't wait for the next time.

Meow: I think that it took a real change in my attitude toward Lash to tip our spanking life from rare mild foreplay spankings to regular harder spankings. I had to become softer, more compliant and less bossy in order for him to tap into feeling more dominant and wanting to spank. It changed the whole dynamic of our marriage. It may not work for everyone, but it sure works for us!

Welcome back, Meow! It's wonderful to hear from you.

Daisy: How about, "Well, you know how you love having a BJ? Well, I love being spanked!"

Seriously, I talked very tentatively with my husband before we married about how if he wanted a sweet, kind, happy wife and didn't want to be married to a bossy, grumpy, old nag, there was something he could try. When he expressed great concern about me "taking womanhood back 100 years" and was fearful of being "an abusive partner," I pointed him in the direction of your tutorials and articles, Bonnie! He gradually came around to the idea and is now most definitely a spanko! So, thank you!

I'm delighted to help and I celebrate your success!

Kitty: I just asked Daddy whether he'd like to spank me! He did! It doesn't hurt that he's always loved my ass. LOL

Prefectdt: Although my experiences with vanilla women and spanking are very limited, they have taught me that there is no point trying to convert a vanilla woman. You may get her to play along for a while, but if she is genuinely not interested for herself, it will only lead to argument and disharmony in the long run. If I believe a woman is truly vanilla, I will not ask her to spank me.

I am a great believer in equal rights and do not want to sound sexist, but differences between men and women have to be taken into account. The first line of Daisy's answer would probably work for a woman talking to a man, but imagine what would happen if a man said the same thing to a woman.

Emily Winters: That's easy. I would offer him more sex, better sex, more of the kind of sex he wants to have, more of me wanting to have more sex. Did I mention more sex?

Lea: If you relate it to sex, I think most men would at least give it a try. However, trying to explain to a vanilla partner (I've been there) that you want real discipline is a whole other ballgame.

All you can do is explain that it is something that you really need and desire and is important to you. Letting them read information online, in wonderful blogs such as this one, can help too. Let them see that this isn't that odd after all and that many others live this lifestyle. Hopefully, they will be open to at least giving it a try. Fortunately for me, my husband was.

Kady: I read a lot of information before I approached JJ. I wanted a little knowledge so that I could refute any of his arguments. I presented the idea, my desire, and information about how it could help us emotionally. It took him awhile as this goes against everything he has been educated to believe. He was willing to try it erotically, and then bridged over to "re-setting" me when I would get out of sorts. He realized it worked, made me happy, and he's now MORE than happy to oblige these days. ;)

Jean Marie: Like Emily and Lea said in differing ways, I've had excellent luck by baring my butt and waggling it in my lover's face. I promise that if I'm spanked well, I'll be in the mood for "anything." I've suffered from neck-whiplash after being pulled OTK so fast...

The Marine's Wife: The best argument for initially trying spanking was definitely the BJ and sex reciprocates. Trying to get a real bit of discipline was difficult, and no argument in the world would have made up for him just having the time to get used to the idea.

Just a Girl: I convinced a vanilla guy to spank me - hard - without it being sexual at first. I asked in the context of discussions about a Taken In Hand/Domestic Discipline relationship to start. Then came D/s (dominance and submission) and bondage and BDSM. This transformation progressed quickly so I think, out of all of the things I talked about, spanking was probably the least foreign or frightening for him in terms of physical domination. From there, it got real sexy, real fast because we both were thrilled to discover he really enjoyed it as much as I did.

I think I'm pretty lucky to have found a vanilla guy who has really dedicated himself to being my dominant partner. I regularly have the bruises and welts to show for it. :)

Karl Friedrich Gauss: I'm in the opposite situation with a vanilla partner who I'd like to spank.

And she's gone along with it to a certain extent. But she observes, rightly, that I'm somewhat ambivalent about the whole thing. And that gives her pause.

So, probably if I were more single-minded about it and not so much wondering whether it would really be the right thing for our relationship, she would probably be more willing to go farther.

But the fact of the matter is that I AM ambivalent, and it would be dishonest to pretend otherwise.

Nonetheless, this is good topic and one that comes up repeatedly on forums I've read. However, the situation with which I'm dealing is less often discussed. This is probably because most of the discussing is done by women, on these kind of blogs and forums, and they are quite understandably talking about their issues.

Clara: As far as I can remember, when I asked my boyfriend to spank me the reason I used was the simplest one: Because it feels really, really good!

There's also the fact that it helps a LOT with depression, but you asked for one argument, and that was the first one I used. :)

(Also, hello! Love the blog. Been reading for quite a while now, but I'm a lurker.)

Welcome Clara!

JW: I told Steve that I really needed to feel his dominance. I told him that I really liked the occasional swats that he gave me during sex and that I really wanted to try pushing it further. Fortunately for me he was game.

Bonnie: My husband is a born spanko so almost any argument is sufficient. In fact, he is quite happy to spank for no reason at all. But if I had to choose one approach that would be most effective, it would definitely involve sexual enticements.

Thanks, everyone, for joining our brunch conversation. I hope you'll stop back next week when we next gather again.

Recap: MBS Sunday Brunch for Dec 14

Our topic of the week dealt with vanilla relationships that evolve into kinky ones. Here are your thoughts.

Todd and Suzy: We have never had it "suddenly" happen. There have been vanilla friendships that eventually turned into something spanking related, but the transition was a long one. It starts with bringing up the topic of spanking and then having casual discussions. At some point, there is a back and forth Q and A that leads to a “how would you spank me?” exchange. This flows into a spanking.

It's a slow process though, and to be honest, I'm not sure the person is really "vanilla" to start with. True vanillas seem to balk at the first mention of spanking. But I have moved from a vanilla-based friendship to having some kinky spanking fun, even if my friend has never really thought much about spanking. They do need to be open-minded, and at least in my experience, it can't be rushed.

Daisychain: I don't think it counts, but when Davey and I first met online, he was a vanilla. After a few months, I expressed a desire for him to spank me for being a brat. Initially, he was a little shocked (maybe that’s too strong a word, nothing I say shocks him). He considered spanking to be spousal abuse. I convinced him to read your blog, and gradually, he came around to the idea. By the time we met in person, he was really looking forward to it!

Girl: This is a tricky one. The relationship was vanilla, but the people in it were not. My friend Jessie and I were decent acquaintances. On a trip with the local Out on Campus group, our goal was to go to the local gender and sex book store (for anyone near Vancouver, Little Sister's is a very good store). We started thinking of what our organization needed for books and, BAM! We both realised that we were the only people there well versed on kink.

We went on a few dates, but she tragically had to move to the opposite side of the continent. All the same, it was fun discovering a fellow kink girl. Mostly, the friends I make are more likely to be kinky than not. Strange that.

Dr. Ken: No, I've never had it happen. There was one girl with whom I was friends, and I did give her a birthday spanking. But I was so worried about her reaction, the swats were really light. REALLY light! I'm not sure you could even really call it a "spanking". I'd given her a good swat or two in the past, but her reaction to them always made me feel that if I ever actually spanked her in the way I wanted to, she would run away as fast as possible and never have anything to do with me again.

When it was over, she did say, "You can spank me anytime." But I'm sure she was referring to the mildness of it all, and a steady diet of THAT kind of spanking just wasn't for me.

We stayed friends – I still hear from her on occasion – but that's as far as it went.

Andrades: I am still "working" on my vanilla relationship. So I will have to keep you posted! Todd makes an interesting point. If a relationship changes from vanilla to shall we say, "chocolate," then were they really vanilla to begin with? Or were they perhaps just a hidden "chocolate" all along? This is a very deep and complex question. I feel that fear and social constraints hold us back from expressing our true selves in many ways.

Tiggs: I was all ready to answer "no" to this and then I thought a little harder...

I was the first woman/person a vanilla friend of mine ever spanked. She was always a wild and crazy gal and I knew she swung both ways (girls and guys, that is). But she'd never spanked before. Her greatest fear was hurting me, which was funny to me at the time (and still is).

It wasn't much of a spanking and there was only minimal sexual play afterward. But I have a feeling that it may have fueled something deep inside her and has probably added something spankably special to her long-term relationship with her boyfriend.

It’s kind of neat when I think about it like that. I helped to bring someone out of their shell in another way, and expand their horizons!

Prefectdt: No, that never happened to me. But I do tend to go out of my way not to burden my vanilla friends with my fetish. This question has got my mind whirring a bit about whether or not some of my vanilla friends are really secret spankos.

Jean Marie: A long time ago, I invited an actress/model to come home for dinner with me and my then boyfriend after a shoot. We were cooking in the kitchen and drinking wine when my boyfriend came home. He did his best Stanley Kowalski impression and greeted me by putting me over the kitchen counter and spanking my jeans-covered bottom. I could tell that my new girlfriend was half shocked and more than a little intrigued.

When I sat down at the table, I squirmed and smiled, so the conversation came back to spanking. We openly told her about our lifestyle. By the time dinner and three bottles of wine were consumed, she let her curiosity get the best of her. My boyfriend spanked her playfully over her skirt. I spanked her seductively, raising her skirt and gradually working her panties into the crack of her ass, she spanked me on the bare. She watched my boyfriend paddle me seriously with my hairbrush while she touched herself. Then we went to the bedroom and frolicked the night away. Ah, to be in my twenties and care-free again...

Padme: My friendship was strictly vanilla with my Master for seven years. We did not even sleep together. We were just friends until we got into a relationship after a night of passion. Then the kink and spankings started a few months afterwards. It was a slow transition, though, and we did lots of talking. We eventually moved toward being a TPE (total power exchange) couple and now we both use BDSM in our relationship.

Pammie: Yes, the first D/s relationship I experienced started out as vanilla. He was a very large man (in all ways – hahahahaha) and I am a petite woman. When he hugged me, his embrace engulfed me. This made me feel controlled. Eventually, I slid into sexual obedience. We did whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted, and wherever he wanted. After a few months, we began experimenting with spanking, bondage, and orgasm control (for me, not him, of course).

We never called our relationship D/s or BDSM, but in reality, it was.

Ms. Betty: Let me start by thanking everyone for the wonderful answers so far, since I asked the question. The insights are much appreciated.

I think Todd (and Suzy) are right. I guess it isn't really sudden, or hasn't been. It just feels like it.

Girl has a good point, too, about the relationship being vanilla, but the people being kinky. I think that applies here.

What's happened in my case feels odd to me, but I guess it’s more common than I thought. Then again, I seem to be doing a lot of guessing with this one. Even though I’ve had something similar happen before, it feels like uncharted territory.

I started a job last summer and found myself working with someone a bit… unconventional. Though extremely talented, he tends to be distracted, forgetful, and just a bit careless …the usual. He was also my immediate supervisor when I started. While I tend to let people be who they are, I started to find some of these things exasperating, then frustrating, then downright intolerable.

In particular, he tended to make one specific mistake over and over again all shift long, every single day. One day, I picked up a handy rubber band and explained how there was a very good behavior modification technique for breaking bad habits. You simply put a rubber band on someone’s wrist and each time they repeat the undesired behavior you snap it. His face brightened and he asked in a little too excited of a tone if I’d really thought about doing that to him. Then I did something I rarely do and stalled. But in the end, I was honest that, yes, I had.

From there, he kept testing me until I did finally use the rubber band. While the first mistake stopped, he started pushing me in other ways. There were the threats, a bit of banter back and forth, and then, yes, I finally did end up spanking him. I have done so several more times since.

So what’s the problem? I still find myself hesitating, which is not something I’m at all used to. When I start a spanking relationship, it starts with careful negotiations. I know exactly what his needs and desires are and where the boundary lines are before I ever pick up the hairbrush.

This time, I don’t. I feel like I am in one of those old video games where the screen was dark and you found the walls of the maze by bumping into them one at a time. We are talking and negotiating, but there is so much to find out and it’s going awfully slowly. As I don’t want to risk harming him or our very good friendship, I find myself holding off a lot more than I like. I’m going with “if in doubt, don’t” for now which I think is best. But I’m also realizing being too hesitant could spoil things as much as being too aggressive.

I realize that life doesn’t come with guarantees and that there isn’t one right perfect answer. But I suppose, sometimes, you can’t help hoping to find one.

Hermione: For all I knew, Ron might have been vanilla. The subject of spanking had never come up, although my bottom was always the primary focus of his attention. Then one night, while we were making love, he began to spank me, and kept on spanking until I achieved an orgasm. Since then, spanking has been an integral part of our sexual activities.

Danielle: My husband and I were in a vanilla relationship for many years. When we were first married, he tried to spank me. But I was very vanilla and not interested. A couple of years ago, John found MBS and other spanking blogs and started to read without my knowledge. Afterward, he showed me what he was secretly reading. For the first time, I learned what that meant: spanking! To make a long story short, he started spanking me. Quite soon after, I began to spank him. That is how it is nowadays. Before, I had never ever thought about spanking. I did not even know the word. From a vanilla person, I changed into a spanker who not only spanks her husband, but friends as well.

Xan: Yes, I guess you could say that I have. One of my best friends in college started spanking me for discipline reasons after we had been "vanilla" friends for a couple of months. In fact, I would never have even considered that she was even a little bit into spanking. Of course, at that time, I was just getting into it too, so I was relatively vanilla myself!

On a side note, I hope that my husband, dear vanilla that he is, will one day be one of those new kinky friends of mine!

Thank to everyone who shared their experiences. I hope you'll join us again next week.

Recap: MBS Sunday Brunch for Mar 23

Our topic this week was dealing with a spouse who wasn't interested in reading or learning about spanking.

Jessica: I think this would be a really tough situation. I would wonder whether he is less interested in sex in general or if spanking doesn't seem appealing. I think you would need to talk about it and see what it is about spanking that makes your partner hesitant. Dan and I watched a couple of spanking videos together. There is one on Shadow Lane called Spanking 101.

It’s taken Dan several months to understand that he can cause me pain and that it is what I want.

Sometimes, I put myself over his lap. Or maybe the spankee needs to ask for a spanking in very clear terms. No hints or innuendo.

Peggy: If the husband refuses to spank her even after talking it through, I'd suggest she see a professional disciplinarian if there is one nearby.

AZ: What about men who wish to be spanked and their wives won't? You posted an implement story about one such gentlemen. Do you think the advice is gender specific or would it work for either situation? I think it’s harder for men to be submissive to woman given our societal structure.

AZ, I agree that the scenario you describe might be more difficult in some respects. On the other hand, you wouldn’t have to overcome men’s socialization to never strike a woman.

PK: I think this is a very sad situation. It is a problem that most of us feared greatly at the beginning. I did without spanking for decades and did fine. But once I came out and finally asked, I would have been devastated if he hadn't even been willing to listen or try. I think that one possibility would be to tell your uninterested spouse that you understand that they are not interested, but you know it is something you have to have. Tell then you just wanted them to know you will be looking for a disciplinarian elsewhere if they are not willing to help. Even if you don't feel you could actually do this it might shock your spouse into actually listening to you.

Aaron: I would say that she first needs to know why he has a problem with it, before I give any specific answers. But here are a few possible reasons he might be adverse to spanking, and my advice for each situation.

1. Does he not want to spank her because he thinks its spousal abuse? If that's the case, this can be really hard. Some people see spanking as violence and can't see it as a turn-on. She needs to be very clear about her wants, and say that it's a fantasy, even if it's more to her than that. Maybe she could indulge one of his fantasies as a bit of a trade-off. When he finally spanks her, she needs to make it very clear, through her words, body language, and especially sex, how much it turns her on. Once he realizes how much fun it is for him, he will most likely not have a problem with further spankings.


2. Does he not want to spank her because he thinks it's "sick" or "perverted"? This can be REALLY hard, especially if you have a very conservative husband. Try to let him see that as long as it's sex-play with you, and turns you on, it's not perverted. Your kink is your kink. He should indulge it. And like I said before, once you convince him to spank you, use everything in your power to let him see how much of a turn-on it is. When great sex happens after spankings, spankings happen.


3. Does he not want to spank you simply because he's not into it? If he doesn't think you are perverted or that you want to be abused, and he thinks it's normal for you, but just not his thing, ask him for a test run. Tell him it's a special kind of foreplay and you can experiment as you go along.

Also, what are you wanting spankings to be? Are they just a playful precursor to sex? Are you looking for a DD relationship?

Convincing unwilling husbands to be a disciplinarian is difficult. I suggest being a brat until he spanks you, constantly telling him, "I won't change my attitude until you give me a spanking!" Eventually he will cave in. Once he does, change your behavior immediately. He will see that it works and will probably be willing to continue in the future, but you will have to ease him into it.

Paul: As a man, I find it hard to believe that he would be reluctant to spank his loved one, once he got over the abuse hurdle. Especially if the woman emphasized the foreplay aspect of spanking. I think it important that the woman show just how this spanking excites her. I can't imagine a man who would not be turned on by something that really excites his lover.

But then, I'm a born spanko.

D: This is a difficult issue. First, I would advise against going outside the relationship without a conversation, discussion, and agreement. It's not a good thing and, trust me, I am the voice of experience.

We can offer lots of tips here and we will. Please don't think that any of these will make this a reality any faster than it would normally occur, if at all.

Videos might help. Conversations are necessary and should occur regularly. If you stumble across a book you are reading with spanking references or scenes, read the passage aloud. Bring home paint stirrers from the hardware store. These are all things that I have done to help promote the subject toward the specific goal.

I don't get what I need or want all that often. I will leave a plastic paddle on the bed when I know it will be seen. It’s a signal and surprisingly, it finally works. Do I wish he would initiate on his own? Absolutely. Maybe someday. I keep that dream alive!

Every relationship is different. I don't know if the above helps, but some of them can't hurt. I wish you the best in your efforts. I know how very hard this is.

Marcus: Elvis made a movie, Blue Hawaii, where he spanks a young lady, and then afterwards, she's seated at the breakfast table with the rest of her friends, squirming just a bit, and even makes a joke about her situation.

Watching that, while in the arms of her hubby, and then squirming extra during and after the spanking is a good way to imply her interest.

Then start sneaking in movies with spankings at least once a week so that she can keep implying. Hopefully her hubby would start to get the idea.

Eventually, it should come up in conversation.

Bratscorcher: I think Aaron's advice is excellent.

The fantasy trade-off concept could REALLY be effective. If the wife reminds the husband that every time he plays the role of principal properly dealing with his naughty schoolgirl that afterward he will be rewarded with an exquisite gratitude blowjob, I think the husband may be VERY receptive.

(If he is not, then it is time to go w/Peggy's advice and find an outside Disciplinarian [Me, for example] who would be happy to give her what she needs... Oh excuse me, what she DESERVES.)

Jeana: I consider myself very lucky not to have had to deal with this situation. My husband was very receptive, and we are very well matched as far as what we want and how far we are willing to take it. He started off very gentle and got a little harder each time over a few months. This put his mind at ease about hurting me which was the only thing that has ever really made him hesitate. I think trying to ease into it would be good for anybody though, especially if their partner was hesitant.

Greenwoman: I think that the hard painful type of spanking is a difficult thing to contemplate for some people, be they men or women who wish to be spanked.

Let me share a little story. My husband is a born kinkster. He's the one who introduced me. He's also not the least interested in being the bottom at all.

In a fit of growing jealousy about M and his interest in the effect on each of us in his playing bottom sometimes, my husband teased, cajoled and goaded me in to a spanking.

I only gave him a sensual spanking. That is, it was hardly even a little stingy as I knew he wouldn't like that at all. It was utterly sensual feeling, with a lot of caressing of his cock and balls along with the spanking.

He hated the whole idea of bottoming until then. Occasionally, he's been after me to do it again. I've been resistant because I don't want to top him in any way. But the gentle erotic experience of this taught him that spanking can mean many things. It’s not just the kind where there are marks and lots of crying and aching butt cheeks that those newly exposed to the idea would find unacceptable.

Start with something that's vanilla foreplay I say and then use blogs like this one and others which give a very wide variety of viewpoints of spanking, so that the protesting partner can explore his feelings and the couple can discuss things thoroughly.

I would not be surprised if there was some shifts in perspective once the partner got to see how lovely a spanking can be if it’s soft and erotic and that there could be just as much potential with something more stingy also, and work from there.

Perhaps a patient and thoughtful introduction is the answer. I know that the concept of something is sometimes more disagreeable than the actual experience of something. Sometimes, the best way to introduce something is to just do it one day in the spirit of experimentation and then ask for reciprocation. In other words, try doing something you think your partner might like that puts you on the road to what you'd like ultimately.

Once the concept is embraced as sexy it can be a lot easier to talk about things.

Lee: Perhaps this reflects my age and idealistic ideas about marriage, but I would have to think very hard about a spouse's commitment (and my commitment) if he or she were unwilling to even learn about something that makes me happy.

I can understand not understanding the kink, not sharing the kink, and fearing hurting the other spouse, but to simply refuse to learn about it or to try and understand is a red flag for me.

That being said, I'm not telling anyone to leave their spouse, as different situations are manageable to different people. I'd try very hard to give my spouse links to sites and other resources that were not going to shock him or her (Bonnie's blog is a good example of one of those resources). I'd also have a serious talk about finding a disciplinarian in the area, or joining a local kink club if you're not getting anywhere. Sex therapists can be an option if you have the financial resources and can find one you like (assuming you can get your partner to go). I would personally also talk to my friends (I know this is NOT an option for most people) and see if any of them could think of any options for the two of us. Sometimes and outside opinion from people who know both you and your spouse can be enlightening.

Anon: Thank you for this brunch topic. I am a lurker, mostly because lurking is the only way I can receive any sort of fulfillment. I really look forward to the comments.

In short, it took me about six years to get up enough courage to ask him, and the response was just about worst case.

It's been another three years or so, and since then he's tried maybe twice, but it so repels him that he simply can't hide it. Even though he tries, I can tell inside he's thinking, “freak.”. Unfortunately, it seems to have ruined our normal sex life as well. If I plead, then we might have sex, but it's been almost three months with nothing. He exhibits absolutely no sexual attraction to me whatsoever.

Anyway, not to whine, but I'm pretty hopeless, and I thought I'd explain this sort of worst case perspective since it's related to the topic anyway.

Elle: When I was younger, a whole series of boys didn't quite match up to my expectations. In my head, I knew from a very early age that I had this kink. But I didn't know that some people found it sick. To me, it was normal. There were a few terrible events where I insisted "Harder... harder... slap me... bite me... HARDER." The boys either turned and ran, or attempted to take on a role they couldn't fill. One in particular got angry, then slapped and beat me senseless before fucking me so hard it hurt for weeks.

I now have someone in my life who understands what I need, who would never ever do anything I didn't want him to do.

Personally, I don't believe you can train someone to follow your kinks. Sad though this may sound to some in difficult situations, I think we're born this way, and others aren't.

Mary: I once was married to someone who also went weeks and months without interest in sex. He tried spanking me once. We had great sex afterward, but it didn't catch on. I think he had issues well beyond what I could possibly face. But I think if someone is not interested in trying, pushing may not help at all. I agree with seeing it as a red flag when a partner does not want to even consider indulging you with a fantasy. But then, there are things I would not want to indulge in that turn other people on. So although some persons convert, mostly we are wired the way we are wired and if there isn't matching sexual interests it may be better to face the fact that reality is you live without or you get out. I eventually left for far different reasons, but knowing what it is like to share a desire to explore with one another sexually, I will never settle for less again.

Anon VII: I agree, that would be a tough one. Also, like Paul, I can't understand the husband's reluctance, but then I doubt if many (if any) top males on this list really could internalize it.

I don't like being argumentative, and normally I don't like flat-out contradicting anyone, but I must concur with the person who said that seeking the services of a professional disciplinarian or otherwise pursuing one's aim through a third party without the spouse's prior consent is a VERY bad idea. Given the widely understood close connection between adult spanking and sex, there's an enormous chance that the vanilla party (in this case your husband) would view that as infidelity.

Having said all that, I can offer a few suggestions, as others have done. If flat-out asking doesn't take care of it and bratting isn't your nature, there's the flirting and flaunting approach. By that, I mean playfully asking him if he's going to spank you if you do something that he's said he'd rather you not do, or in mock solemnity but with a foxy smile, inform him that he's going to have to warm your bottom for something you've said or done. I cannot stress too much the importance of facial expression and, in particular, the use of the eyes when taking an approach of that sort. Vocal inflection is also important. Blatant flaunting would include making a show of bending over to pick up something when he's within arm's reach and you're clad in very little. Most men, even vanillas, would find it hard to resist at least a pat or touch, after which you could go after him to let him know how much even that excited you (even if it fell short of what you actually wanted). I once had someone tell me wordlessly by simply handing me a paddle-ball paddle (on the court, no less!) and shooting me a naughty-girl smile over her shoulder as she bent over; and no, she didn't know _a priori_ about my inclination, but she found out soon enough! Still another way (and another that's been worked on me) would be for you to playfully swat him over some little thing, then, if he steps toward you pseudo- (or even genuinely) menacingly, going saucer-eyed, covering your backside with your hands, and saying "No!" but smiling impishly all the while.

I can't promise that any of those would work, but they might be worth a try. The best advice has already been given by others: Chances are that, once he sees what a delightful little hellcat even one little pop or two can turn you into, his reluctance probably will fade.

Bonnie: This situation is outside my experience, but I had the luxury of reading the original e-mail that inspired this question. My interpretation is that the husband didn’t categorically reject spanking. He just wasn’t very interested in reading spanking stories or tutorials. If this is correct, I would offer Jessica’s suggestion about the videos.

I think that men, speaking in general, tend to be more visually-oriented than women. They particularly like pictures and video. Perhaps, the message is right, but the medium is wrong. If this is the situation, sending the husband to MBS probably isn’t going to help much.

I also agree with the suggestions to “make it worth his while.” No matter where one is in their relationship, demonstrating your appreciation is virtually always beneficial.

Emily: That is a really rather tough question. One thing she could try is discussing with him and asking how he would feel if they met with a potential spanker for her. It would have to be someone with whom they could be comfortable with and trust. If that is a no-go with her hubby, then the only other alternative I could think of is drowning herself in the fantasy world online. It helped me a lot while I was married to my vanilla hubby. It still didn’t fill the void completely, but it did help. There are a lot of people who are trying to fulfill their desire through the internet. Possibly, she could connect with a soul like that. Best wishes to those in this situation.

Kelley's Girl: We have always had a "deal" that anything was safe in fantasy. If one of us was interested in introducing something new to our playtime, we knew we could always fantasize about it without being criticized. That is how many fun things have been introduced. We have an understanding that some things will carry over to reality and might be wonderful. Some things, we have tried have not been as wonderful for one or the other of us, but that is OK too. And everything we fantasize about hasn't made it's way to reality yet, either. At least, we have created a safe place to talk about it and have discovered some things about each other in the process.

Thank you all for sharing your experience and insight. I hope this discussion provides some assistance for those who are having difficulty in finding their way. With or without kink, relationships are difficult and require a lot of effort from both partners. There is no secret beyond maintaining good communications and building trust.

Another View of Vanilla

Following up on our recent brunch discussion, Pagan sent me a link to an excellent essay she wrote. In it, she examines the vanilla partner phenomenon from a unique perspective. Her shimmering, positive message offers hope to many other spankos so situated.

Thanks, Pagan!

Recap: MBS Sunday Brunch for Mar 18

Our topic this week was among the most challenging we've tackled. The scenario involved a woman named Bev. Her husband, though quite worthy in most other ways, shows no interest in spanking her. She knew from the outset that there could be no easy solutions, but our MBS brunch participants provided several helpful insights.

Anon #1: Presumably Bev’s husband, as a loving man, is keen to connect sexually, turn her on, and give her pleasure in lovemaking. Whatever her interest in spanking, I'd start by persuading him to give her a thrill by role-playing a light-hearted scene where she does something naughty and “earns” herself a light, OTK spanking. She could open her legs a bit and encourage him to combine smacks with intimate caresses until he understands that, for Bev, the spanks are just a “stingy” sensation, a special form of caress in foreplay. I'm convinced that if he gets a kick out of turning his wife on in other ways, then he can incrementally come to enjoy turning her on by means of a light-hearted spanking.

I’ll bet he's just as concerned about his own self-image as her kin. As an erotic spanker, I fully appreciate why he does not want to think of himself as her disciplinarian. But if spanking is erotic, he doesn't have to. It's just a way of giving her pleasure. Good luck!

OPB: My experience chimes exactly with Bev's. Although my wife is loving, spanking is just not something she can entertain on either side of the knee. It is a sorry blot on our sex life.

As I've already sent a long letter on this subject I'll not say more in this comment, and ask you to cull any helpful thoughts from there.

Anon #2: Just a thought… Would Bev’s husband object to somebody else spanking her? Might that meet her needs?

Elis: This question did touch me because Bev's story could so easily be mine. And no, there is no easy answer. Nick was pretty understanding about trying it. Once he saw the change in me – from someone who tolerated sex occasionally to a happy, sexy, satisfied wife who couldn't get enough – he was pretty well hooked!

But still he didn't understand. He worried about hurting me and he was shocked at just how much I wanted and could take. It took lots and lots of talking (emailing in our case). Another way I got him hooked was to ask his help by getting him to agree to spank as my diet incentive. He knew this was something I wanted and needed in my life.

My advice to Bev? Make sure he knows, really knows, how important this is to you. My guess is that you really explained yourself well to Bonnie. Let him read that letter. If he won't read blogs print off a few posts that you might get him to read that show how much this meant to some women and how happy they are with this practice. If he is still unwilling to try, then ask him how he would feel if you found someone else to spank you in a non-sexual setting. If he is the good guy I suspect he is, he will NOT be in favor of this plan. But it might help him realize how important this is to you.

If Nick hadn't been willing to try I would not have left him and disrupted our family. But I know I would have been resentful and hurt and I don't know what might have happened once the children left home. I wish you the best of luck!! You are welcome to email me any time if that would help.

Tigger: Wow, that's a tough one, especially since Bev has already tried talking to her husband about her desire to be spanked. Though Bev didn't mention whether she is looking to be spanked as foreplay or for disciplinary purposes, I'd have to agree with one of the anonymous posters above who suggested that she and her husband incorporate spanking as a prelude to sex. If she can talk him into trying it, he will be able to see how excited it makes her and most likely be willing, if not eager, to add spanking to their repertoire!

Also, because Bev didn't mention (or perhaps doesn't know herself) exactly what her husband's reasons are for not wanting to spank her, I'm wondering if one of the reasons might be that he thinks he will hurt her. To me, that's actually a good thing! But maybe she might suggest that he start out spanking her lightly at first. Then, as they both get more used to spanking, he can spank her a little harder, or even consider using implements!

Dave: Cindy and I have both gone through the same situation with previous partners. The operative word being “previous.” Unfortunately, our need for spanking in our lives (mine to give, hers to receive) ultimately was a contributing, but certainly not all encompassing, factor in those relationships ending.

I would key in on his comment, “just not us” and say, “No, but it is a very real part of me. It’s one facet of who I am, and it's not going to go away.”

At one point in counseling with my wife, we were referred to a “specialist” (NOT!) who said I needed treatment, because I had a illness regarding my fetish.

He needs to understand that it IS a part of Bev. It’s something that seeks to be fulfilled within the love and caring of their relationship.

If discipline/punishment is what Bev is seeking, I would definitely recommend against sharing that aspect of it with her husband at this point. I will ask Cindy to leave her own comments, but I think she will agree that you have to approach it from the erotic angle first. Jumping straight to discipline/punishment is much scarier for vanillas than enhancing what is, I assume, already a mutually satisfying sexual relationship.

I would point him in the direction of blogs like PK and others who have successfully “converted” their spouses into spankos. He can learn either directly online or by printing out specific posts about frustrations and the road to happiness.

Best of luck and lots of hugs, Bev!

Paul: I can't really add anything to what the others have said. Going the erotic route seems to be the most successful. Most of the spankees that I know have turned their supposedly vanilla partners using that route. There is a lot of useful literature online that explains our kink, which might be helpful. I wish you lots of luck Bev and I hope that your loving husband will see it your way.

Bonnie: As I said in the introduction, I find this question to be a very difficult one. I cannot in good conscience suggest that someone end their marriage and split their family over their need for kink. On the opposite side, I wouldn’t counsel Bev to simply submerge her aspirations for the greater good. Either outcome seems painful and unfortunate.

The third alternative, if it exists, is to try to find some sort of middle ground. The suggestions made here are helpful, but only if Bev’s husband is receptive. Otherwise, rough seas lie ahead.

RJ: My life resembles Bev's from the other side. I am erotically/sexually turned on by spanking, but my wife will not hear of it. To her, spanking is abuse, period, end of statement.

I get by with fantasy, masturbation, and spanking sites/blogs. I won't leave the marriage, since I love the woman. A long time ago, I thought of spanking outside the marriage, but since it is an erotic thing for me, it seemed the same as having an affair.

Bev can keep trying, but she may end up with the same choice I had to make.

Mary: I think the key is emphasizing that although it may not be the "us" as he defines it, it is Bev. This is not a need that easily goes away. I would take a page out of New Beginnings and let him read it. Her writing is fantastic and she totally shares how it has heated up their marriage and how happy she is with the change. Perhaps he can be intrigued enough to explore with her.

I wish you lots of luck, Bev.

Amber: Boy, that's a hard one! I too am married to a vanilla man, but he is totally game. I think the reason he is willing is that he sees how happy and aroused that it makes me, and how cold sex leaves me without BDSM elements. You know, how it makes you glow, and so forth. I think I would keep trying to persuade him by making it clear to him that it's just part of sex. Try to get him spank (or even start with tying up, if you like that) during sex, in the middle of foreplay, when he's way aroused to quit. That might work.

Greenwoman: This is a really complicated situation... It’s likely far too deep a situation to be easily solved with this post, but I just wanted to offer up a relationship philosophy that works very well for me. If a person I love has to ask for something they feel is really important more than twice, then it's so important to them that I need to find a way to get on board with their request.

Getting on board can mean a lot of things and shouldn't mean sacrificing my ethics or self esteem, but it should definitely mean that I find a way to meet my loved one where they live in terms of the situation at hand. If I'm not giving their request some serious attention to find a way to accommodate their request that's satisfactory to both of us, then I am making them beg... Or I am making them do without something deeply important. Either way, someone I love is suffering emotionally because I will not budge on my position. That's not fair. Relationship isn't about compromising an individual. But it is about negotiating until there's consensus and both are getting their needs met.

I think the place to start this conversation is with this topic, not the spanking, because your partner is failing to recognise your needs in this He's also failing to recognise his emotional responsibilities to you. In my opinion, that means that the spanking is not the real issue at hand. The spanking is simply the issue that brought out this deeper problem of needing better methods of negotiation of needs within your relationship.

As for the spanking stuff, if you've tried seduction, if you've tried education about spanking, if you've tried discussion and requests, and you still aren't getting anywhere, then I suggest the two of you negotiate getting you some non-sexual spanking from a Dom and then you coming home afterwards for the sex part during a date with your husband.

Blessings.

Edward: As Bonnie said, this is a difficult one. Lisa got me to start spanking for erotic fun. She gives so much to me that I thought it was important to give back.

It's still not something that I do every day. I think my major hang-up with it to start was that I did not want to be daddy for her. She does not want that either. If you read her last post on our blog, though, sometimes I do get real close to being daddy. If she'd just use the red tie there would be no confusion.

Don't give up, Bev. Go read our blog. Maybe something I've said there will help.

Thank you to everyone who jumped in to assist dear Bev. She's already written me to express her gratitude for your understanding and your knowledge. There might be some hope after all.

We'll be here for brunch again next Sunday and I hope you'll join us then!

Keywords: spanking, vanilla partner, introducing kink, My Bottom Smarts, spanko brunch