Sunday, March 23, 2008

Recap: MBS Sunday Brunch for Mar 23


Our topic this week was dealing with a spouse who wasn't interested in reading or learning about spanking.

Jessica: I think this would be a really tough situation. I would wonder whether he is less interested in sex in general or if spanking doesn't seem appealing. I think you would need to talk about it and see what it is about spanking that makes your partner hesitant. Dan and I watched a couple of spanking videos together. There is one on Shadow Lane called Spanking 101.

It’s taken Dan several months to understand that he can cause me pain and that it is what I want.

Sometimes, I put myself over his lap. Or maybe the spankee needs to ask for a spanking in very clear terms. No hints or innuendo.

Peggy: If the husband refuses to spank her even after talking it through, I'd suggest she see a professional disciplinarian if there is one nearby.

AZ: What about men who wish to be spanked and their wives won't? You posted an implement story about one such gentlemen. Do you think the advice is gender specific or would it work for either situation? I think it’s harder for men to be submissive to woman given our societal structure.

AZ, I agree that the scenario you describe might be more difficult in some respects. On the other hand, you wouldn’t have to overcome men’s socialization to never strike a woman.

PK: I think this is a very sad situation. It is a problem that most of us feared greatly at the beginning. I did without spanking for decades and did fine. But once I came out and finally asked, I would have been devastated if he hadn't even been willing to listen or try. I think that one possibility would be to tell your uninterested spouse that you understand that they are not interested, but you know it is something you have to have. Tell then you just wanted them to know you will be looking for a disciplinarian elsewhere if they are not willing to help. Even if you don't feel you could actually do this it might shock your spouse into actually listening to you.

Aaron: I would say that she first needs to know why he has a problem with it, before I give any specific answers. But here are a few possible reasons he might be adverse to spanking, and my advice for each situation.
  1. Does he not want to spank her because he thinks its spousal abuse? If that's the case, this can be really hard. Some people see spanking as violence and can't see it as a turn-on. She needs to be very clear about her wants, and say that it's a fantasy, even if it's more to her than that. Maybe she could indulge one of his fantasies as a bit of a trade-off. When he finally spanks her, she needs to make it very clear, through her words, body language, and especially sex, how much it turns her on. Once he realizes how much fun it is for him, he will most likely not have a problem with further spankings.

  2. Does he not want to spank her because he thinks it's "sick" or "perverted"? This can be REALLY hard, especially if you have a very conservative husband. Try to let him see that as long as it's sex-play with you, and turns you on, it's not perverted. Your kink is your kink. He should indulge it. And like I said before, once you convince him to spank you, use everything in your power to let him see how much of a turn-on it is. When great sex happens after spankings, spankings happen.

  3. Does he not want to spank you simply because he's not into it? If he doesn't think you are perverted or that you want to be abused, and he thinks it's normal for you, but just not his thing, ask him for a test run. Tell him it's a special kind of foreplay and you can experiment as you go along.

Also, what are you wanting spankings to be? Are they just a playful precursor to sex? Are you looking for a DD relationship?

Convincing unwilling husbands to be a disciplinarian is difficult. I suggest being a brat until he spanks you, constantly telling him, "I won't change my attitude until you give me a spanking!" Eventually he will cave in. Once he does, change your behavior immediately. He will see that it works and will probably be willing to continue in the future, but you will have to ease him into it.

Paul: As a man, I find it hard to believe that he would be reluctant to spank his loved one, once he got over the abuse hurdle. Especially if the woman emphasized the foreplay aspect of spanking. I think it important that the woman show just how this spanking excites her. I can't imagine a man who would not be turned on by something that really excites his lover.

But then, I'm a born spanko.

D: This is a difficult issue. First, I would advise against going outside the relationship without a conversation, discussion, and agreement. It's not a good thing and, trust me, I am the voice of experience.

We can offer lots of tips here and we will. Please don't think that any of these will make this a reality any faster than it would normally occur, if at all.

Videos might help. Conversations are necessary and should occur regularly. If you stumble across a book you are reading with spanking references or scenes, read the passage aloud. Bring home paint stirrers from the hardware store. These are all things that I have done to help promote the subject toward the specific goal.

I don't get what I need or want all that often. I will leave a plastic paddle on the bed when I know it will be seen. It’s a signal and surprisingly, it finally works. Do I wish he would initiate on his own? Absolutely. Maybe someday. I keep that dream alive!

Every relationship is different. I don't know if the above helps, but some of them can't hurt. I wish you the best in your efforts. I know how very hard this is.

Marcus: Elvis made a movie, Blue Hawaii, where he spanks a young lady, and then afterwards, she's seated at the breakfast table with the rest of her friends, squirming just a bit, and even makes a joke about her situation.

Watching that, while in the arms of her hubby, and then squirming extra during and after the spanking is a good way to imply her interest.

Then start sneaking in movies with spankings at least once a week so that she can keep implying. Hopefully her hubby would start to get the idea.

Eventually, it should come up in conversation.

Bratscorcher: I think Aaron's advice is excellent.

The fantasy trade-off concept could REALLY be effective. If the wife reminds the husband that every time he plays the role of principal properly dealing with his naughty schoolgirl that afterward he will be rewarded with an exquisite gratitude blowjob, I think the husband may be VERY receptive.

(If he is not, then it is time to go w/Peggy's advice and find an outside Disciplinarian [Me, for example] who would be happy to give her what she needs... Oh excuse me, what she DESERVES.)

Jeana: I consider myself very lucky not to have had to deal with this situation. My husband was very receptive, and we are very well matched as far as what we want and how far we are willing to take it. He started off very gentle and got a little harder each time over a few months. This put his mind at ease about hurting me which was the only thing that has ever really made him hesitate. I think trying to ease into it would be good for anybody though, especially if their partner was hesitant.

Greenwoman: I think that the hard painful type of spanking is a difficult thing to contemplate for some people, be they men or women who wish to be spanked.

Let me share a little story. My husband is a born kinkster. He's the one who introduced me. He's also not the least interested in being the bottom at all.

In a fit of growing jealousy about M and his interest in the effect on each of us in his playing bottom sometimes, my husband teased, cajoled and goaded me in to a spanking.

I only gave him a sensual spanking. That is, it was hardly even a little stingy as I knew he wouldn't like that at all. It was utterly sensual feeling, with a lot of caressing of his cock and balls along with the spanking.

He hated the whole idea of bottoming until then. Occasionally, he's been after me to do it again. I've been resistant because I don't want to top him in any way. But the gentle erotic experience of this taught him that spanking can mean many things. It’s not just the kind where there are marks and lots of crying and aching butt cheeks that those newly exposed to the idea would find unacceptable.

Start with something that's vanilla foreplay I say and then use blogs like this one and others which give a very wide variety of viewpoints of spanking, so that the protesting partner can explore his feelings and the couple can discuss things thoroughly.

I would not be surprised if there was some shifts in perspective once the partner got to see how lovely a spanking can be if it’s soft and erotic and that there could be just as much potential with something more stingy also, and work from there.

Perhaps a patient and thoughtful introduction is the answer. I know that the concept of something is sometimes more disagreeable than the actual experience of something. Sometimes, the best way to introduce something is to just do it one day in the spirit of experimentation and then ask for reciprocation. In other words, try doing something you think your partner might like that puts you on the road to what you'd like ultimately.

Once the concept is embraced as sexy it can be a lot easier to talk about things.

Lee: Perhaps this reflects my age and idealistic ideas about marriage, but I would have to think very hard about a spouse's commitment (and my commitment) if he or she were unwilling to even learn about something that makes me happy.

I can understand not understanding the kink, not sharing the kink, and fearing hurting the other spouse, but to simply refuse to learn about it or to try and understand is a red flag for me.

That being said, I'm not telling anyone to leave their spouse, as different situations are manageable to different people. I'd try very hard to give my spouse links to sites and other resources that were not going to shock him or her (Bonnie's blog is a good example of one of those resources). I'd also have a serious talk about finding a disciplinarian in the area, or joining a local kink club if you're not getting anywhere. Sex therapists can be an option if you have the financial resources and can find one you like (assuming you can get your partner to go). I would personally also talk to my friends (I know this is NOT an option for most people) and see if any of them could think of any options for the two of us. Sometimes and outside opinion from people who know both you and your spouse can be enlightening.

Anon: Thank you for this brunch topic. I am a lurker, mostly because lurking is the only way I can receive any sort of fulfillment. I really look forward to the comments.

In short, it took me about six years to get up enough courage to ask him, and the response was just about worst case.

It's been another three years or so, and since then he's tried maybe twice, but it so repels him that he simply can't hide it. Even though he tries, I can tell inside he's thinking, “freak.”. Unfortunately, it seems to have ruined our normal sex life as well. If I plead, then we might have sex, but it's been almost three months with nothing. He exhibits absolutely no sexual attraction to me whatsoever.

Anyway, not to whine, but I'm pretty hopeless, and I thought I'd explain this sort of worst case perspective since it's related to the topic anyway.

Elle: When I was younger, a whole series of boys didn't quite match up to my expectations. In my head, I knew from a very early age that I had this kink. But I didn't know that some people found it sick. To me, it was normal. There were a few terrible events where I insisted "Harder... harder... slap me... bite me... HARDER." The boys either turned and ran, or attempted to take on a role they couldn't fill. One in particular got angry, then slapped and beat me senseless before fucking me so hard it hurt for weeks.

I now have someone in my life who understands what I need, who would never ever do anything I didn't want him to do.

Personally, I don't believe you can train someone to follow your kinks. Sad though this may sound to some in difficult situations, I think we're born this way, and others aren't.

Mary: I once was married to someone who also went weeks and months without interest in sex. He tried spanking me once. We had great sex afterward, but it didn't catch on. I think he had issues well beyond what I could possibly face. But I think if someone is not interested in trying, pushing may not help at all. I agree with seeing it as a red flag when a partner does not want to even consider indulging you with a fantasy. But then, there are things I would not want to indulge in that turn other people on. So although some persons convert, mostly we are wired the way we are wired and if there isn't matching sexual interests it may be better to face the fact that reality is you live without or you get out. I eventually left for far different reasons, but knowing what it is like to share a desire to explore with one another sexually, I will never settle for less again.

Anon VII: I agree, that would be a tough one. Also, like Paul, I can't understand the husband's reluctance, but then I doubt if many (if any) top males on this list really could internalize it.

I don't like being argumentative, and normally I don't like flat-out contradicting anyone, but I must concur with the person who said that seeking the services of a professional disciplinarian or otherwise pursuing one's aim through a third party without the spouse's prior consent is a VERY bad idea. Given the widely understood close connection between adult spanking and sex, there's an enormous chance that the vanilla party (in this case your husband) would view that as infidelity.

Having said all that, I can offer a few suggestions, as others have done. If flat-out asking doesn't take care of it and bratting isn't your nature, there's the flirting and flaunting approach. By that, I mean playfully asking him if he's going to spank you if you do something that he's said he'd rather you not do, or in mock solemnity but with a foxy smile, inform him that he's going to have to warm your bottom for something you've said or done. I cannot stress too much the importance of facial expression and, in particular, the use of the eyes when taking an approach of that sort. Vocal inflection is also important. Blatant flaunting would include making a show of bending over to pick up something when he's within arm's reach and you're clad in very little. Most men, even vanillas, would find it hard to resist at least a pat or touch, after which you could go after him to let him know how much even that excited you (even if it fell short of what you actually wanted). I once had someone tell me wordlessly by simply handing me a paddle-ball paddle (on the court, no less!) and shooting me a naughty-girl smile over her shoulder as she bent over; and no, she didn't know _a priori_ about my inclination, but she found out soon enough! Still another way (and another that's been worked on me) would be for you to playfully swat him over some little thing, then, if he steps toward you pseudo- (or even genuinely) menacingly, going saucer-eyed, covering your backside with your hands, and saying "No!" but smiling impishly all the while.

I can't promise that any of those would work, but they might be worth a try. The best advice has already been given by others: Chances are that, once he sees what a delightful little hellcat even one little pop or two can turn you into, his reluctance probably will fade.

Bonnie: This situation is outside my experience, but I had the luxury of reading the original e-mail that inspired this question. My interpretation is that the husband didn’t categorically reject spanking. He just wasn’t very interested in reading spanking stories or tutorials. If this is correct, I would offer Jessica’s suggestion about the videos.

I think that men, speaking in general, tend to be more visually-oriented than women. They particularly like pictures and video. Perhaps, the message is right, but the medium is wrong. If this is the situation, sending the husband to MBS probably isn’t going to help much.

I also agree with the suggestions to “make it worth his while.” No matter where one is in their relationship, demonstrating your appreciation is virtually always beneficial.

Emily: That is a really rather tough question. One thing she could try is discussing with him and asking how he would feel if they met with a potential spanker for her. It would have to be someone with whom they could be comfortable with and trust. If that is a no-go with her hubby, then the only other alternative I could think of is drowning herself in the fantasy world online. It helped me a lot while I was married to my vanilla hubby. It still didn’t fill the void completely, but it did help. There are a lot of people who are trying to fulfill their desire through the internet. Possibly, she could connect with a soul like that. Best wishes to those in this situation.

Kelley's Girl: We have always had a "deal" that anything was safe in fantasy. If one of us was interested in introducing something new to our playtime, we knew we could always fantasize about it without being criticized. That is how many fun things have been introduced. We have an understanding that some things will carry over to reality and might be wonderful. Some things, we have tried have not been as wonderful for one or the other of us, but that is OK too. And everything we fantasize about hasn't made it's way to reality yet, either. At least, we have created a safe place to talk about it and have discovered some things about each other in the process.

Thank you all for sharing your experience and insight. I hope this discussion provides some assistance for those who are having difficulty in finding their way. With or without kink, relationships are difficult and require a lot of effort from both partners. There is no secret beyond maintaining good communications and building trust.

7 comments :

Terpsichore said...

Hi! This was a difficult question for me to answer and so I hesitated in sharing. My husband responded with unconditional love and caring when I first told him my desires. However, progress has been extremely slow. And since lovemaking too has not been happening regularly due to life in general and spankings are so connected for me...the little playful spankings haven't been happening much either. I continue to keep the communications open, difficult as it may be. My husband really does not have an interest in reading tutorials or stories on the internet or watching videos...not that he is unwilling I don't think...just that he does not express interest or take the time to do this. I have printed out a few things which has helped and written him a couple of letters. If presented to him in this manner, he will glance at them and usually right after I share my feelings he will respond with a few flirtatious or playful spanks now and then to keep my fantasy alive. But again life interferes and there is a long lull and I feel like I have to beg all over again. It is difficult, but with time I think he will turn around. It is just a matter of time for us and sharing, sharing, sharing. So my recommendation is to keep sharing and exploring different ways of making your fantasy reality. Don't give up. :-) Best wishes, Terpsichore

Anonymous said...

I am sorry I was not around this weekend to comment. However, let me turn the situation around. I love to spank but my wife is not into it at all. It is strictly spousal abuse from her POV and she doesn't want to hear or understand anything else about it. She has "tried" twice, (about 2 gentle slaps) and freaked out both times. I do not have any plans on leaving her and expect that this is what it is, but - any suggestions are appreciated.

Love4her said...

This is to AZ.

I am not sure the problem and the answers are interchangeable for men desiring a spanking and women wanting the same. I know as a man I feel the need to be submissive at times sexually. Being spanked would be a beautiful addition to this. As a man, with my wife at least, I would feel as though I would be toping from the bottom if my wife was to spank me, at least in the beginning. She would be submitting to my desire and be out of her comfort zone. If there became a point where she really liked giving me a spanking then she may become the top and design the scenes, deciding when, where and for what I would be punished. And I would be willing to follow her directions and wishes to a “T” and accept my fate.

She, like many women just does not posses the dominate nature needed to be an effective spanker. I, on the other hand and like many men, am often in the control position with kids, household responsibilities, finances, work, etc...and I wish to “give up” my authority and be controlled.

I am a kinky bugger from early on in my life and would try anything for my wife’s pleasure. She is opening up and trying things in the past 18 months or so that have not been a part of our relationship in 20+ years of marriage. Her eyes lit up at the sight of a new toy I purchased for her a week ago. In the past her eyes would roll in disapproval and it would never be used, touched or looked at again. She has found that toys expand her pleasure. Possibly she will learn that by playfully scolding, spanking and training me, she can expand her pleasure even further. The titillation and humiliation of her control would make me burn to please her. It certainly does have this effect in my fantasies. Add to this that a slap to my ass (or even the whisper of its possibility during sex) is like Viagra to my loins.

She certainly has a lot to gain from adding this type of play to our sexual relationship. Two years age I would have never thought I would have the opportunity to kneel and kiss her feet in heels, help her finish herself with a vibrator or share erotic literature with her but all these have come to pass. Sharing these things has brought us closer and increased our intimacy. Spanking would do the same in am sure and in time she may learn this too. So I wait. I cannot imagine finding another to spank me being something that could increase our intimacy. Giving her an ultimatum or demanding it with an “or lese” that would cause her distress would do nothing to increase our love. I want her to be in control of this aspect. If she just could not do it and wished to designate a woman to lovingly spank me, know about it, condone it, and arrange it, that would work... but I believe that would never happen.

LFM

Reesa Roberts said...

Hi, Bonnie, this was a great topic and there were a lot of insightful responses. I agree that seeking a disciplinarian outside the relationship should be a LAST resort, if ever used at all.

Huggs,
Reesa

Hermione said...

I fully understand how frustrating it can be to have needs and desires that are simply discounted.

My ex was not interested in hearing about my spanking interest. He did reluctantly comply a handful of times, but in a way that left me feeling demeaned and degraded instead of elated. As a mental health professional, he felt fully justified in diagnosing me as "sick, sick, sick" and I believed him.

I eventually went outside the marriage for what I needed, and it wasn't for spanking. My ex also looked elsewhere, and we divorced. I am not condoning adultery, or saying that finding someone else to spank you if your husband won't is a good idea if the marriage is solid in other ways. Mine wasn't, and that's how I can justify to myself what I did.

The man I turned to was Ron. He eventually fulfilled my desire for spanking because it was also his pleasure, and we are still together and very happy after many years.

Hugs,
Hermione

Anonymous said...

Great topic and answers - makes a weekend very educational as well as fun. My spouse isn't very interested in reading fiction of any kind, or anything touchy-feely, although he has checked out some of the better spanking sites (like this one) provided they have technical or factual content. But long before I thought this spanking thing was something I would like to try, I read a very hot spanking scene to him from a fairly vanilla erotica book at an appropriate place and in an appropriate manner and I guess it planted a seed that germinated. I think it might be a good way to introduce the topic because unlike one of my fantasies, there was no hidden or expressed personal or emotional agenda, other than the fact that it is intended to spice up an evening. Eventually, my love of fiction (especially the kinky stuff) and his technical research into the topic got us both to the same place, 'Me, over his knee'! So, provided that there aren't larger issues in the relationship, even a couple of previously totally vanilla non-spankos with totally different learning styles can be converted, but it was all in the medium and the presentation. Thanks Bonnie, such a fun place to hangout!

K said...

I don't think my hubby has any interest in seeking information on his own either. His free time is somewhat limited by work, teenagers, a toddler, a new house with new responsibilities as far as maintenance and such, and an emotionally needy wife who requires lots of cuddles and sex to maintain a happy disposition. What free time he has, he has other uses for. He's not uninterested, it's just not a priority for him to sift through all the information available. So, any information he needed I have had to share with him. However, his initial response was very willing so that made it easier. I have read through most of Bonnie's articles, how-to's, and spanking scenarios as well as information from a couple other sources. I emailed a couple of inspiring links or articles to my husband, always careful to note when something wasn't appropriate for viewing at work. He is the IT guy, but better safe than sorry. I don't know how much, if any, he read. I emailed a few pictures of implements and he did comment on those. We talk a lot. It's not always perfect, but we're learning together. I don't know how much of this is helpful, but good luck.

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