Recap: MBS Sunday Brunch for Jan 17

This week, we considered these four propositions related to submission:

1. It's always been a fascinating paradox that I get what I most desire when I surrender my control.


2. Submission is not an all or nothing proposition. There are many ways to submit and many degrees of submission for each.


3. It requires considerable courage and faith to submit. Once established, these qualities are often quite beneficial in other aspects of life.


4. Everyone who willingly receives a spanking is submitting at some level.

Here are your responses.

Sara: Great questions, Bonnie! I answered over on my blog.

Jean Marie: Oh, my, these questions are deliciously thought-provoking!

1. I am headstrong. I hate to be spanked hard. I need to be spanked hard often. I love the feeling afterward! That's my paradox, so question one's phrasing spoke right to me.


2. I say yes to question two. Different strokes for different folks, but that being said, I've often come home from a hard day's work to find my boyfriend ordering me over his knee. Before I went ass over tea kettle/bottoms up, I would have sworn that I hadn't an ounce of energy left in me. After he's through, I'm left renewed, relaxed, and revitalized. Sometimes, that turns into a marathon session of discipline/love-making, and in the morning, I feel like I got a full nine hours of sleep. So sometimes it IS all or nothing.


3. The word "trust" should be added to question three's wording, and I agree wholeheartedly.


4. I don't see how anyone could disagree with number four. If you are willing receiving it, you're submitting. I willingly submit to playful foreplay spankings. Part of me willingly submits when I bend over for painful punishment spankings. It is just shades along the spectrum.

Little One:

1. I am not sure that I understand the paradox and not sure I would even want to try. All I know is that when I surrender life runs smoothly and when I try to run it (life), it all gets a bit bumpy


2. That is something I am still learning. Quite truthfully, I thank goodness for the internet because it has broadened my world more than I could have imagined. I never realized that there were folks who only like spanking and not (what I considered the whole package) D/s.


3. This is definitely a lesson I am STILL learning, but submission is a quiet strength that can and will bring peace and joy in every day life, both BDSM and vanilla.


4. I keep thinking (over this bit) "duhhhh." Obviously! BUT then is it obvious to those who only receive a spanking once in a while? I am thinking they may not see it that way, and might even get a wee bit angry to see submit and spank in the same sentence. But yeah, I believe there is a form of submission even in an occasional spanking.

Love4her:

1. If “surrender my control” means to give up desiring what it seems I can not have and being happy with what I do have, then yes. The desire for what I think I want (kinks) can seem to almost torment me at times and make me very disgusted, dissatisfied and empty, even given all I do have. When I can stop and look at all that is right and realize you can’t have it all, I feel pretty good.


2. This I agree with wholly. There are many things I would like to submit to and a lot I would want nothing to do with. I want to submit with limits. Perhaps that is not submitting, but topping from the bottom. I suppose a lover who was intimately in tune with my desires and kinks would have my pleasure in mind along with hers. In this case, I would submit totally. There would be no script, just totally improvisation. Trust me, I don’t have to worry at this point with my wife.


3. For me, I think this statement is reversed. I think one's courage to submit and faith that the person to whom they submit will respect the relationship and them, come from qualities that are beneficial in other aspects of life, specifically the relationship between the dom and the sub. These qualities include trust, honesty, love and commitment. I would not want to submit to someone outside of those bounds. One could choose to pay for a session of submission with a professional mistress, or find a community of like-minded people without their spouse, but not me. I would much rather share this intimate part of myself and literally give myself to my wife, the one I love and one who loves me in return. It could be all sex play or go as far as domestic discipline. But it would be the two of us.
   
   I feel closest to my wife when I am confessing some desire, some kinky and taboo desire. I am laying myself bare, seeking her approval, and requesting her willingness to play along and be part of something that is special and unique about me. I am not sure whether she appreciates the level of trust it takes to share like that.


4. This too, I agree with. You submit, but when it gets to stinging, you might wonder why the hell you did it. But it feels so good to give up control, to be dominated, and to have someone else decide when “enough is enough” or when it is not and you need more.

Sunflower: These are very thought-provoking questions this week, Bonnie! My take is a bit different. I am a spanko who is still very much in the discovery stages. I haven't yet received a "real" spanking, though happily, my boyfriend and I are talking about it. It looks like we're going to be getting there fairly shortly!

1. I haven't found this one to be true. As someone still taking baby steps (and leading my partner in those steps), I still have a lot of control, out of necessity. I hope I will find this to be true in my relationship in the future.


2. I definitely agree! A safeword, for one thing, is a degree.


3. Yes, yes, yes! Even with the few small steps I've taken, I can see how it's affecting other parts of my life beneficially.


4. I would agree with this one. To willingly get your ass smacked is a submissive move. Depending on the relationship, that might be the extent of it. But it is, in and of itself, an act of submission.

(PS I've commented before as anonymous, but I've now chosen to use the moniker "Sunflower" on my blog commenting – a small step out of the woodwork!)

Welcome, Sunflower! I'm glad you're here.

Hermione: I agree with all four statements.

1. This was the hardest of the four points to answer. For me, I think it has a lot to do with my husband's tendency to do the opposite of what I want. As long as I try to be in control and call the shots, he resists. When I let him take charge, things usually resolve to my satisfaction. Once the struggle for control is eliminated, he is more receptive to my point of view.


2. That's true. There are many types of relationship dynamics possible, ranging from total submission and absolute obedience to token obedience if and when it suits, and everything in between. It depends on what works for an individual couple. The type of submission may also vary from day to day depending upon the circumstances.


3. I have definitely seen the benefit of submission in all parts of our relationship. Once I freely and consistently adopted a submissive attitude, I began to receive the respect, trust and admiration that I had always hoped for.


4. The act of baring one's bottom and undergoing a spanking is by its nature a submissive act. The fact that the spanking is exciting and that the receiver craves it, enjoys it and is turned on by it does not lessen this fact. Submission is simply part of the parcel.

Anon: I want to key in on the levels of submission, and a technique that clearly communicates the present level of desire/need. It does so without the mood-kill of having to verbally articulate extent in order to get both partners on the same wave length. When she needs or wants a spanking my woman wears panties coded by color to how hard and long it is to be (i.e. light pink, light swats. Red, harder. Dark red, even more severe. Deep crimson, a real marathon). When I feel the need to spank her, or observe she deserves it, I hand her a pair of panties. Again, they are colored to the mood and type of session deemed necessary and/or desirable. This sets the stage without the embarrassment or discomfort of having to go into expositions about length and severity. As always, both partners must agree. This builds trust, promotes communication and avoids abuse. Boundaries are a shifting sands scenario. Trust is King. It is obtained, developed and retained by comfortable communication. Without trust, there can be no intimacy of any type.

Jslittlelady: This was a very interesting topic and it really made me think about things. I agree especially with numbers 1, 3, and 4.

1. I wrote a whole post on number one. Here's my paradox that hit me like a brick. Surrendering power and control through submission is empowering and brings me to a place where I am so much more in control of my surroundings.


2. Number two is true for me to a point when compared with everyone else. But I can't say this about myself. I'm either all submissive or not submissive at all. I can't be submissive by physically obeying, but not obeying in my heart.


3. I think point three is a huge absolute. It says all it needs to say, all by itself.


4. I think the answer to question #4 is related to point number two, I can bend over for a spanking, but until my heart and attitude are submissive, I usually can't stop fighting. When I do stop, then I've finally been truly submissive. It may not be that way for everyone. It's just that way for me in my experiences.

Prefectdt: Here are my answers:

1. Yes, I agree. The paradox is most acute because for me to submit, the Top has to have my wholehearted consent. By giving up control to her, I am getting what I want. But the situation can only happen because I have total control over the "yes or no" as to whether the play happens in the first place.


2. Oh yes, just looking at the people who have commented here, we see subs, bottoms, and slaves. The varieties of submissiveness are boundless and can alter as play partners change or for those in an exclusive partnership, evolve as their play and relationship progress.


3. This one is where the male and female subs and bottoms differ. There are very few women who could stop me from walking away from a play scene if it where going badly. Therefore, I am able to take a few more risks when choosing a play partner. For a woman, their partner may be physically more able, so they have to have a greater level of faith in a partner before they play. They might therefore develop a greater sense of courage and faith than a male sub or bottom would.


4. Yes we all are.

Mija: This is an interesting topic. Okay, let's try this then.

1. Yes, but I've been jaded enough not to be surprised by this. I am always pleased to remember how much my partner is into this as well. It's good to know it's not just all about me.
   
2. I do agree that submission can be a matter of degree. For me, though, it is all or nothing. I don't have headspace for semi-submission. That said, I'm not submissive all that often with anyone other than P.


3. I'm not sure. I think trust is important, but it as well as courage has to go both ways. I don't really see the issue of "faith" coming into it at all for me.


4. I disagree strongly. There are plenty of people who are sensation players, including those who are tops or masters, who like the sensation of receiving a spanking. I've watched bottoms / submissives and slaves give a spanking to their other half at that person's direction. The spanking in these cases is a personal service, IMO. The person receiving the spanking in those circumstances is no more "submitting" than I "submit" to the woman who gives me a pedicure every other week.
   
   In a pinch, I've spanked friends and they've spanked me because one or the other of us has wanted a spanking. There hasn't been submission there, at least not so I noticed, at all. It's been all about the physical act. I don't believe someone can submit unless there's someone on the top side to submit to. Otherwise, as a kid, I submitted to myself when I solo spanked.
   
   I think the word "submission" has to mean something more than just receiving a physical sensation. It's an act of surrendering the self to another. Just for myself, I've bottomed to a number of people, but submitted only to a very few.

Bonnie: I'm pleased that everyone enjoyed responding to these thoughts. The first was a line I wrote in an e-mail to a friend. It thought it nicely illustrated the point I was trying to make. The second item was inspired by one of Keagen's recent essays on submission. I continue to be impressed by her unique insight.

The third point targets a phenomenon I have observed in myself for many years. I was curious to see the extent to which others had similar experiences. I thought the fourth topic might provide for some spirited discussion. For many of us who routinely blend spanking with submission, it seems an obvious conclusion almost to the point of being unavoidable. And yet, as Mija reminds us, there are other equally valid viewpoints.

I have to conclude that there are nearly as many successful formulas as there are successful couples. When it comes to submission, we must each strive to develop or discover our own perfect mix.

Recap: MBS Sunday Brunch for Feb 1

Our question dealt with the carryover of dominance and/or submission beyond the realm of spanking and into other aspects of life.

Daisy: Davey and I have an equal relationship in every way. But in decisions of importance, where we disagree, even after both of us have put our point of view, what Davey says stands. For example, if he thinks I should be in bed by a set time, and I have reasons for that not to be the case, I can explain to him civilly (angrily hurts, trust me... LOL). Then he will stick to or revise his decision. But, his decision is final. I have to say, much as it pains me, his decision has always turned out to not only be in my best interests, but also the right one. He does listen to my point of view and is man enough to acknowledge if I have a valid point. He makes his final decision after much thought and care. Davey is a man of patience and quiet wisdom. I am happy to bow to his decision, even if it doesn't seem so at the time!

Texringer: My beloved and I are mutual spankers, so we're evenly matched regarding submission/dominance in spanking and in our relationship otherwise as well. I could use a little more dominance in one area in fact. I used to have a friend who spanked me for missing my gym workouts, and that was not the fun, sexy kind. LOL But my guy is not comfortable being my "punisher." Ah, well, I'm blessed to have the love of my life enjoy spanking fun, so I'm not complaining!

Tiggs: Dante and I have tried a DD-type of arrangement, as well as a D/s sort of thing. But neither worked well for us, for a multitude of reasons. That being said, we are equals, but his word is final on almost everything, though of course I am encouraged to voice my piece on everything too.

But at this point in our lives and relationship (he has been my husband for 11+ years), the dominance and submission do not really carry over at all outside the realm of spanking and sex.

He doesn't feel (and I mostly agree, though we do have our different thoughts here) that it is his job to control me or punish or reward me for things that I do that are right or wrong in our daily life.

He might have a different take on this, so it will be interesting to see how he replies!

Zille Defeu: Well, as I’m a 24/7 slave to my Master, it’s a pretty high degree!

I love doing the wifely duties: cooking and cleaning, etc. And sexual service! Submitting to him day-to-day isn’t hard (and he is not a very demanding task master, and he often asks my opinions and desires – sometimes I can even choose the TV show!).

But it’s accepting punishment from him (in the form of the dreaded paddle) is the hardest submission for me. I need it, and actively want it… except for when it comes time for the actual punishment!

I find my submissive needs even more confusing than my masochism, and I spend not a small amount of time thinking about them and trying to figure them out. So far, I’ve learned that they are highly contradictory and all tangled up together.

And that having those needs met is deeply, profoundly satisfying.

Miss Leya: There is no definite answer for us. We don't do any kind of discipline. I know the power play during a spanking does bleed over into regular life. Little things usually, like him saying “no” to buying junk food. I'm also pretty sure I'm more likely to be what some might say "bratty." But then, we've always been the tease each other just a bit kind... for lack of a better way of putting it.

BTW, there's a new look, new place, etc. for me.

Miss Leya (Ofia)
http://makingtimeforsex.wordpress.com/

Welcome anew, Miss Leya! May your new blog be as successful as its predecessor.

Impish1: Not one little bit! We care for and do for each other, make decisions by who cares the most or who knows the most about a particular area, and generally function well and agreeably as a team. I love to tease that he's the boss. He will reply, "and don't you forget it!" one time and laugh, "yeah, right..." the next. We both know I like that in the bedroom, and so it's a fun game to tease and play with, but I don't think we'd like to live it. Sometimes I do fantasize about a bit of it for real in the realm of taking care of myself better and stress relief, taking the choice out of it... But I know it's just a fun little dream. Sigh.

Anon VII: The dominance/submissiveness of our spanking sessions is pure role-play to heighten sexual desire and fulfillment. In "real life," we're very much 50-50, with lots of compromises. On some things, such as politics and certain aspects of spirituality, we've been agreeing to disagree for years.

River: Nick is in control of me/us. I am very opinionated and more well-read than He is. So though we always discuss things as equals, and sometimes He defers to my experience or judgment, He always has the final say. I don't question Him without good reason, or sometimes, I protest slightly if I am in a bad mood. I feel safe, secure, loved, and taken care of because I know that Nick is responsible and good and has my best interests at heart.

Cathrine Grayce: I haven't yet found someone to spank me, but as a manager at a major retail company, I grow weary of being in control and yearn to give it up to the right person.

Janeen: The first few years of our marriage, we seemed to fight about everything! One day, I realized the things we were fighting about were not really that important to me.

It was then that I started letting him decide things, and our current relationship kind of developed from there. I would say that I am very much submissive to him (most of the time) in our everyday lives also, but not in a way that others would really notice.

Prefectdt: Outside of play, I am not submissive at all. That is why I describe myself as a bottom and not a sub. In vanilla life, I am very toppy and a bit pig-headed sometimes.

This is not unusual in male bottoms. The most obvious examples are TE Lawrence (of Arabia) and Emperor Augustus. When not getting their backsides roasted, one lead an army to victory and the other conquered and lead the Roman Empire.

morningstar: I almost didn't answer this Sunday Brunch question. Then, this morning, I was thinking the reverse of that.... Let me explain.

Yes, my submissiveness and Sir's dominance flows through every aspect of our life together – spanking, work, shopping, social events... a thread through everything.

Oh, that isn't to say that I don't have an opinion. It's just that Sir has the last word – as with so many of the other commenters today.

BUT what happens when there is only D/s and NO spankings. Doesn't it feel a little bit like something is broken? Off kilter? Mismatched?

Doesn't it put a wee bit of strain on the D/s side of things without the spankings? And I am not talking punishments. I am talking old fashioned spank me for fun.

Anyway, sorry Bonnie. I know that isn't where the question was supposed to go. But it seems it is where my mind is going this Sunday morning.

Some of our best discussions have been those that took off in a direction I hadn’t quite anticipated. No apologies are necessary.

Hermione: My submission extends to other areas in our relationship. Ron will sometimes act like a stern dom about household chores and I will respond with “yes sir” or “no sir,” but there's an underlying element of fun in it. Who says we don't roleplay?

In matters that require a decision, Ron casts the deciding vote. As long as I gracefully acknowledge that he's in charge, he usually asks my opinion. He may or may not agree with me immediately, but after a little time for reflection he often sees things my way. I prefer a quiet life, and agreeing without argument on small matters usually guarantees peace and harmony.

Then we each have our individual areas of expertise and responsibility, and Ron respects my authority just as much as I respect his, depending on the situation. Any time something that comes into the house marked "some assembly required," I am automatically in charge.

A: The boy and I have a completely egalitarian relationship, with no one in control. Though I can be pretty bossy, we share equal control in the relationship. Because of our particular kinks, we often tease each other in a non-sexual situation. Both being switches makes this relationship work. The boy smacking my butt in public, or growling a harsh word into my ear, or touching me under the table at dinner is pure fun.

The more I consider my spanking fetish, the more I realize it's because I need to be told I'm wrong, and get caught for it. Surrendering power sexually allows me to continue being self-assured and aggressive in real life. And I'm sure the boy wants to spank me every now and then because I can be bossy, and the release during sex keeps us healthy as a couple.

Alas, he will be away for two months, so I won't be able to enjoy any of the joys of spanking, kinky sex, or the pure ecstasy of waking up next to him.

A, may your time apart pass swiftly and serve to heighten the inevitable reunion.

Matt: My wife is in charge for domestic decisions. We share responsibility in most other areas. I am in charge for anything to do with the safety or security of the family.

Although new to spanking, this situation is pretty much how it has been during our marriage, certainly since we had kids. The only change is that now I get paddled for breaking her house rules instead of being yelled at or getting the cold shoulder.

Ronnie: Because we operate a business together, we share decisions and always have. That runs over into home life too. I would say that I defer to P’s wishes or point of view sometimes rather than argue, even if I think he’s wrong. But, in fairness to him, he will often review his initial decision and take my points on board anyway.

In matters carnal, I definitely and happily admit to enjoying taking a more submissive role, although it’s more often than not me doing the initiating. It works for us and neither of us see it as unnatural or conflicting in any way. Punishment is one sensitive area where we have been only few times. But I would welcome more in the right circumstances and would definitely be submissive. The thought of it bothers, intrigues and thrills me all at the same time.

There is a natural relationship between mates in all animals. I don’t think us humans are essentially any different.

Lucy: This is an interesting topic, and one about which I have been thinking a lot recently. In my day to day life, I tend to be a somewhat dominant, headstrong individual. Most people who come in contact with me, especially in a professional or academic context, would never even guess that I'm submissive. The only time that it ever shows in the rest of my life is when I'm around a powerful, dominant male. I tend to become a little more submissive, especially if he is in a position of power (boss, professor, etc.).

My fantasy is to have power and prestige in a professional setting, but to be submissive at home to my husband. I love power, but I have no desire to have control in a sexual or domestic situation. At some point it's nice to not have to worry about being in control and to know that someone else is making the decisions for once.

Dr. Ken: For me, the answer is, "Not a lot." It's like a favorite spice in the spice rack. I take it down and use it when I want or when it'll be beneficial to the dish I'm preparing. But I don't carry it around with me all the time and use it on everything...

K: Hubby and I are still experimenting with his dominance and my submissiveness. I think I have more submissive tendencies than Hubby is ready to embrace. So, we're taking things slow and learning how we can use the whole dynamic to enhance our relationship.

Love4her: The opposite is the problem for our relationship. I long to be the one spanked, but my wife does not possess a spanking gene or dominant gene. I am somewhat of a dominant personality. I tend to take charge of situations if there is an absence of direction. Sexually, I am also the dominant one in our relationship. I am not beyond making my desires known, however bizarre they may seem in her eyes, but she is vanilla. The more I look at the spanking thing, the more I want it.

I want it playful, sensual, erotic, and naughty. I even have a desire to be truly punished by her to the point of crying when I do things that upset her or fail to meet her needs. The dominant and submissive roles in our relationship make this unlikely. Hmm...

I have even joked about seeking a professional. As exciting as it sounds, I would never do it because I want my wife in that role. Going to another would be a total obliteration of the trust in our relationship. Now, if she knew of a spanker to send me to for my punishment, I would do that. But I am not holding my breath.

Jay: The short answer is YES.

The long answer is that I did have set rules to follow. If I broke one I was spanked. Does that count?

When I do find my Dom (and I will), I hope that there will be an equal share of discipline and erotic spankings.

They wouldn’t be for anything silly, you understand, but for things like swearing (which I'm trying to stop), drinking too much (I'm trying), losing my temper (happens too much) and the like.

Our Bottoms Burn: We have no carry-over outside of the bedroom. Heck, it is rare either of us can be submissive.

Cathrine Grayce: Working in a male-dominated corporate environment, I often wish that I could just be taken to task only ONCE for mistakes via a ruler or paddle and just get it all over with instead of having to be randomly reminded of mistakes which often aren't even mine, but for which I am responsible. That would never be allowed in a corporate environment. I am a manager with all those dominant type responsibilities. But outside of work (even during work where I can't allow it to show – I fake it really well), I am submissive. Every time my assistant makes a stupid mistake (which, unfortunately, is daily) I just want to take my yardstick and whack her on the butt until she promises to remember to do it right next time. There aren't any real consequences other than paperwork pointing out mistakes. Maybe after a good couple of whacks with a ruler she'd think twice about losing my department hundreds of dollars several times a day, which I am then responsible for. I don't even have a man at home to help me feel better by applying that yardstick in lieu of my boss. I'm just left feeling like I need something... So I guess I think about it at work and at home...

Indy: I'm much more submissive in my real life than in the scene.

OK, not really. :-) I'm just a bit more serious and a bit less fun. The extent to which I'm actually submissive is a subject of ongoing investigation. I like to switch on occasion, but I also like to give up control in a way that is deeper than for most of the people who only like to spank for fun and sex, but much less deep than for most of the people who have responded above.

Love4her: To Cathrine Grayce, shopping will be a lot more fun trying to figure out who you are... (Not that there is any chance of it LOL). I will be looking at the local retail employees a little differently now!

I'm going to Staples to buy a sturdy wooden ruler (or other office pervertable). Look out!

Another Mary: For my husband and me, it's only in the bedroom (or wherever the play takes us!). In the rest of our lives, we both have fairly demanding, high-stress jobs...

Bonnie, on another topic though: I was hoping you'd post another February spanking calendar, as you did last year. That's about when I first found your blog, and our marriage took on whole new dimensions! Any chance of the spanking-a-day calendar again this year? Thanks for your blog.

AM, that’s a good idea! Thanks.

Claire: We had some D/s play yesterday with a good bit of spanking involved. We were talking about it afterwards and discussing how it is a manifestation of my general nature which is to do (and take pleasure from doing) things for others.

In our relationship, we are generally very much equal. We do tease each other - typos=spanks, etc. But we switch (although I am more often submissive) and so the teasing goes both ways.

One of the best things about this relationship is that I feel free to sometimes demand what I want when we are having sex. It is still only occasional that I will take the lead, but in other relationships, my deference would not have allowed me to do that, even if he wasn't a "dom."

Bonnie: Randy and I are basically equal in most things. We each have our areas of interest and we naturally gravitate toward allowing the person with the insight to make the decisions.

In the bedroom, he is in charge. He spanks. I receive the spankings. We both prefer this arrangement.

With this said, I find that my submissiveness does sometimes escape from the bedroom. This is particularly true immediately following a spanking. When my bottom is glowing and my spirit is flying, I am often quite agreeable and easily persuaded to partake in all manner of creative endeavors, sexual and otherwise.

Thank you to everyone who joined us today and contributed to this fascinating discussion.

Recap: MBS Sunday Brunch for August 17

Our question this week came from Greenwoman. She asked about limits possibly being a barrier to submission. Here are your thoughts.

Abby: Having my own blog has allowed me to sort out these types of issues, and the question of limits and barriers is one I have certainly struggled with over the years.

I have finally landed at a place where I don't have set limits, but that is after fifteen years of experimenting and getting to know myself. I don't think limits should ever be up to the partner. That may sound denying at first, or topping from below, but I really do believe that what we experience is personal. We may be willing to experience more with one partner rather than another, but ultimately, these are our bodies and no one else's. That goes for tops as well as bottoms. You should never be made to inflict more pain than you are willing to cause, just as bottoms should never have to bear more than they are willing to receive.

Full submission is giving everything one has. If I only have 12 strokes in me, then my partner taking 24 is inappropriate, unless I have signaled that after 12, I'm ready for more. If I have 48 in me, and only 12 are taken, I'm going to be left feeling unfulfilled. But what if my partner isn't up for inflicting that much punishment?

It's a known fact that people sometimes fake orgasm, out of exhaustion or kindness or some other personal reason. Sometimes, you might have a great experience, but you're just not going to come. Corporal punishment is no different. Sometimes, you might not be able to give or receive everything you want, but you have to make do with what is there. If you're in a partnership, that's more important than personal fulfillment. And personal limits are more important than the partnership. It's all about knowing what is right for you and your partner, and being willing to give and receive accordingly.

For newbies, I would recommend never being afraid of one's own limits. I used to even avoid fiction concerning the cane, and if you know me now, you know it's my favorite implement. That's after years of exploration. We do this because we love it, and because we love those with whom we do it. Pushing our limits is fun. Breaking them before we're ready can be devastating. So explore, slowly and steadily, and if my own experience is anything to go on, your partner will grow with you.

Anon #1: I tend to be someone who avoids taking unnecessary risk. Therefore, I avoid anything other than the hand. Such implements were used on me in a less than appropriate manner when I was a very young child. Because of this, I am afraid of the belt or anything other than the hand. It’s a bit like the saying "Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me."

There are even limits on what I will allow with the hand. After one boyfriend left bruises on me with his hand, I decided that I will only allow it so hard and no harder. I am afraid to push that limit for fear it could turn abusive, even though I love my husband dearly. I understand things are different with one partner than with another. But some things are hard to get over, like three abusive boyfriends before I got married. I love and trust hubby, but still there is only so far I allow him to go. I know now never to push the limits.

Mary: I think limits are healthy. I love the way Abby talked about submission as giving all that you have. I have also found that as trust has been allowed to grow, things I once feared are now actually craved. I think it is about exploration. When one of us presents an idea, we allow the other time to mull it over (we are both a bit cerebral that way). Sometimes, fears and concerns are discussed. Sometimes, I have provided a tiny opening, or he has threatened to use something if I don't change my actions (thus giving me a chance to NOT go there – it’s very effective at times). But having the idea out there starts to build curiosity. Eventually, I might indicate a circumstance where something would be okay. Then, the magic is that whenever anything is new, it is introduced so gently and in small bits. We don't worry about "topping" as although discipline and play are part of the relationship. The decision about what action is disciplined and what punishment/or play is okay is decided with mutual respect and each honoring each other's limits as well as exploring each other's desires.

Anon #2: There are many kinds of limits including physical, mental, and emotional limits. My former top accused, convicted, and scheduled me for punishment for something I did not do. He didn’t even bother to ask me if I had done it. If it had been the first time, I might have been able to forgive. But it was not. If it had been for something silly, it would have been OK. But it was not. I had been willing to go far outside of my comfort zone to please her. I wanted to make it work. She found my limit, insisted that I go farther, and then we were no more.

PM Duo: I think of limits more as yield signs. For us, they are a place where we stop and talk about how we think extending the limit will feel and how we want to handle it if it doesn't work for one of us.

What we've decided is that it definitely has to stop at the place where one partner is uncomfortable. Over a nine year span, we've tried a lot of different things and pushed our limits pretty regularly. We've found there are things that I like that he is simply not comfortable doing and vice-versa.

One good example is bondage. He brought it up and I was in favor of it though a little nervous. We talked about it for a couple of weeks before deciding to try it. Now, mind you, this was pretty mild bondage, he used scarves tied very loosely. For the first couple of minutes, I kind of enjoyed it and then, for some reason, I just freaked out and became hysterical. He immediately took them off and comforted me. I'm still not sure why it affected me so strongly.

In the physical aspect of our relationship, I'm definitely submissive and willing to let him do pretty much anything he wants, but this was something I just couldn't handle. Later, when we discussed it, he admitted that he had really enjoyed it (up until I became hysterical), but neither one of us was willing to do something again that so clearly upset me.

Neither one of us think I am any less submissive because I'm unwilling to be tied up. It's a limit that we tried to transcend, but it didn't work and we both respect that.

Daisy: No one can give more than their all. And no loving partner would want or expect more than that.

There is nothing wrong with gently pushing/testing the limits of a partner, as long as both have the confidence and trust in each other to say, "that’s enough," and knowing it will not cause resentment. I do not feel that having a point beyond which you cannot go is a barrier to full submission at all. There are many reasons why this may be the case. Pushing beyond limits could damage the relationship if either partner is unable to go there and feels pressured. Use intuition, instinct, sensitivity, and intimate knowledge of your partner’s needs, and with good communication, you can't go far wrong.

Dr. Ken: There are limits, and then there are hard limits. You can push the limits a little bit – I think most spankees expect it, to a small extent – but a hard limit you do not break, you do not go beyond, and you do not push. Everyone has hard limits. There are things they will not do. There are points you just don't exceed. And if your partner is any kind of a partner at all, they know and accept that and don't try to force the issue.

The question states, "However, in a trusting relationship, limits can seem as though they are barriers to full submission." I totally disagree with that sentence. Someone's limits were probably in place long before they entered into a trusting relationship, and once in a relationship, you trust the other person will respect your limits. Trying to force someone to go beyond what they're willing to take starts becoming abusive, IMO...

Hermione: I agree with Daisy. There is nothing wrong with pushing the limits of either partner if you are in a trusting relationship. Trust is the key to it. And as Dr. Ken said, spankees expect their limits to be pushed a certain amount.

I also disagree that limits are a barrier to full submission. I fully submit to my husband, regardless of which end of the scale we are playing at in terms of either his or my limits. The more each of us pushes our own personal limits, the farther we can comfortably go. As Mary said, it's about exploration. Ron has gone far beyond what was once the limit of how hard he would play, and he has taken me past anything I have previously experienced. But it took time and patience to get there.

Limits can and do change over time, although they don't have to if it isn't right for you. It's all about the journey, not the destination.

Paul: I think that the answer, from the Top’s point of view, lies in the ability to read one’s partner. Of course, limits must be respected on both sides.

Where love, trust and communication exist, problems shouldn't arise.

Greenwoman: This question has dangled in my consciousness for years now. It’s a part of my ongoing internal inquiry as a submissive. So it felt interesting to me to share it with the community when it rose in me again recently... leading to some big decisions for me.

In reading today, I have related to most everyone in one aspect or another. I think that my overall viewpoint is like Abby's. I think it needful to stop when I'm well cooked, and not before or after. Frankly, that does vary from day to day.

And my other overall remark echoes Dr. Ken and Paul's viewpoints. Hard limits have to be respected by all concerned, as they are a matter of essential trust.

Part of the reason this question is of interest to me is, like the first anonymous commenter, I experienced abuse as a girl. There are some types of play that are a serious stretch or that are absolutely hard limits for me when they might otherwise not be. So, my answer has always been to stop while I'm whole.

Him: In my mind, limits are fluid, ill-defined things. They seem (for me) to change from day to day.

On the bottom, I've rarely had my limits pushed. I can think of only one occasion where it had gotten close to a danger zone, and the entire time She had been very careful to stay in tune with me.

Limits are harder when I'm on the top. It's fun to push them, to keep gently pressing Her past the point where she wants to stop. I can tell when it's time to stop, but actually stopping is quite an act of will!

Are limits an obstacle to submission? I don't think so, and that's what counts for me. I don't think there's a single gold standard definition on submission... which is part of the beauty of it.

RPT: Before any limits get pushed, the participants should talk about it. We know where the limits are, and sometimes, it's nice to be pushed. So a talk about how and when and where is the prologue to the play. Then, afterwards, we discuss how it worked out.

But effective communication is the secret to a good relationship, whatever the style, vanilla or kinky.

Dragon Mage: From my point of view (as the dominant partner), limits are not barriers to full submission. When we began to explore BDSM, Luvbunny had several limits that have since been expanded. She still has a few that remain and she has at least one that we tried to stretch. She wanted to move past it very badly as it was something that I wanted, but she simply is not able to go past that limit (as Greenwoman and others posted, this limit is related to abuse when she was a child).

It is certainly possibly to not push far enough, and also to push too far. I don't think there is an easy or simple answer regarding when pushing limits should stop. With some limits, we stop sooner than others.

Elle: If you love and trust someone, you respect their limits. In the past, I have had issues with men who clearly didn't love me or who I really shouldn't have trusted. These incidents left me severely bruised or bleeding and generally went far beyond the kinky fun that I'm interested in.

I'm not someone who enjoys anything too extreme. My kink is about sensual and sexual pleasure and not discipline or serious pain. Limits are fluid (as has already been said) and mine do change. But, in general, I would say compatibility and mutual trust remove the need for specified limits as such. If you and your partner are in tune with each other, you can communicate your needs (even if they vary from time to time) without having explicit barriers.

I find it's different every single time, and that's as it should be. If I ever start finding sex boring, I'll know it's the end of it all.

Maryann: Thanks for the topic. All the responses are very helpful to a newbie like me.

I started with Bonnie's blog in my spanking education and assumed I'd be a lot like her ~ submissive sexually and for spanking play, but not for discipline/punishment. In just a few short months, that is already changing a little. I followed a series of posts by Mike on Spanked Hubby" about the benefits of loving discipline and began to get more comfortable with the idea. Now we are slowly moving the game a little deeper.

Like so many who have already posted, I like to have my limits stretched. But Max would not allow me to go too far too fast. That is the wonderful thing about having such a responsible, loving Top! He sets the limits and holds me back most of the time. So, when does push a limit of mine, I pretty much trust him to know what is good for me.

I'm as submissive to Max as he and I want right now, so I guess that is the only limit that counts.

M.Yu: Excellent discussion. Please accept this award from a humble admirer.

Wow. Thank you, M.Yu!

Lucy: There are some limits that, given the right timing, I will push. I think most limits can be pushed a little, but there are some that I have for a reason. I know that certain things are beyond my ability to tolerate and will ultimately cause strife between me and my Top. To me, it's doesn't show a lack of submission to acknowledge that you are human and can only be pushed so far before you snap.

Naomi: I think there are definitely limits, but it is important that you both know them! I don't think anyone should get in a serious 'spanking' relationship where trust and knowledge of one another isn't developed all the way.

It is important for the spanker to KNOW the limits of the person he's spanking. Scott and I use a safeword, and there are times where I call it. Before he'll stop completely, he questions me. Usually he'll stop, but we always continue the spanking later. I don't feel less submissive, and I don't think it makes anyone less submissive.

I think that if you truly trust the person who is spanking you, your limits are a bit more than what they would be if it were someone that you DIDN'T trust. If you trust someone completely, you will know, even when it seems to be too much, that they won't do more than you can handle.

Terpsichore: Being new to this, I find everyone's comments and sharing to be very helpful and thought provoking. Much of what has been said speaks to me, such as mutual trust and respect, giving all that you have, listening to one another, exploring slowly and steadily to find one's and one's partner's limits, knowing your partner well enough to know when to push and when not to, and it being about the journey. There are a lot of great thoughts. I am afraid I have not much to add, but thank you. :-)

K: I'm sure I have limits, but they are not clearly defined yet. We are still exploring and experimenting and learning what we like or don't like. I haven't had any limits pushed. If anything, I may have pushed my hubby's limits by asking for more than he was comfortable with. He's discovered he likes spanking me hard, though we probably don't play nearly as hard as some couples do. I think I may have created a monster, but one I'm thoroughly enjoying.

Submission isn't really something we have much experience with. I've given my submission verbally, but Hubby is only just starting to embrace the idea and explore what he can do with it. I don't think discovering my limits will diminish my submission.

Bonnie: I choose to frame the issue a bit differently. I believe that submission is a precious gift. A gracious recipient will accept it as such. No gift encompasses all things in the world. Rather, this gift comes with a few sensible boundaries. The dominant may sometimes desire to extend those boundaries, and with prior consent, may do so. With mutual understanding and effective communication, endless adventures are available.

Thank you all for making this a fascinating brunch topic. I really enjoyed reading the many various perspectives. I hope you'll stop again next week!

The Submission Test

Randy and I have an erotic game we play periodically and it’s called the submission test. As the name suggests, Randy employs a variety of methods to plumb the depths of my hunger for sexual submission. We hadn’t played this game for quite a while, at least a year by my reckoning. But last weekend, we revived it.

The fun began when Randy ordered me to go upstairs, strip naked, and lie face down on the bed. Knowing him as I do, that’s a signal that spankings, sex, and shenanigans were just ahead. Intrigued, I readily complied with his instructions.

About five minutes later, he walked through the bedroom doorway rubbing his hands together. I turned my head in time to see the eager smile on his face. He sat beside me and began rubbing my exposed and slightly chilly bottom.

“Tonight, my love, we are going to explore your submission. Everything we do will be with your complete, explicit, and unqualified consent. If you don’t want to proceed, you need only say so. At that point, we will stop.”

I knew the drill. I could end the session at any time, but would I? Or would I prefer to show off my submissiveness? The good thing was that I knew Randy wouldn’t propose anything that would injure me or place me in real danger.

“The time has come,” he informed me. “Shall I put on your cuffs?” He intended to restrain me. This was no real surprise. Light bondage can be enjoyable for me and it really heightens my feelings of submission.

“Yes, please do,” I responded in almost a whisper.

Randy slid the soft leather cuffs onto all four of my limbs. Next, he fastened elastic cords to anchor my wrists to the headboard and my ankles to the foot of the bed. He left me a little freedom of movement, but I clearly wasn’t going anywhere until he released me. He finished by sliding a large pillow beneath my hips.

“Now, my sweet, we begin with the paddle. Do I have your permission to paddle your bottom until it glows bright red?”

Phrased like that, Randy knew his question cast me in the role of co-conspirator in my own chastisement.

“Yes,” I replied.

Paddle me he did. He unleashed a flurry of about twenty hard, fast swats without benefit of a warm-up. This barrage left me panting and squirming. It really hurt! I had little doubt that the redness he sought had been achieved.

“Do you feel that?” His finger was now touching my rear orifice. I told him that I did.

“Well, that’s my finger and it’s covered in lubricant. I want to use it to grease your ass. Does that meet with your approval?”

I’m generally a reluctant participant in anal play. Let’s just say it’s not as much fun for me as a good spanking. However, this was the submission test and I wasn’t about to bail out over a slippery finger. I told him to proceed.

As promised, the finger penetrated and lubricated my most private opening.

“Now, let’s move on to the belt.” As Randy spoke these words, I heard the sound of his own leather belt sliding rapidly though the loops of his pants. “May I whip your naked skin with my belt?”

Most times, my answer would be unequivocal. But that small paddle had already done some fine work on my sit spots. Nevertheless, I nodded my assent.

“Do you mean that you grant me permission to mark you?” He wanted to hear the actual words.

“Yes, yes.”

The belt cracks burned as they were applied, but the sensation didn’t seem unpleasant.

“Now, I would like to shove a vibrator up your ass. Will you let me do that?”

I answered, “Yeah, no… Wait. You don’t mean the Hitachi, do you?” For those unfamiliar with the Hitachi Magic Wand, I was concerned that I had just unknowing agreed to an act that might not even be physiologically possible.

Randy burst out laughing. “No, but now that you mention it…” I had to admit that concept was pretty funny, as long as he didn’t actually intend to do it.

He chose instead a slim, smooth, bullet-shaped vibrator. It was already buzzing when he began sliding it into me. It was a strange sensation to be stimulated back there.

“Now I want to add a second vibrator in front. Will you accept that?”

OK, this was a total no-brainer. “Sure,” I agreed.

Randy activated a second vibrator, identical to the first in all but color (I couldn’t see anything he was doing, but I do know my toys!). He expertly rubbed it up and down to maximize the intense effects. Within a minute or two, I was bucking up and down, writhing with pleasure and pulling on my restraints. The feeling of those two vibrators working in unison was mind blowing. I nearly reached climax more than once, but my lover eased off before I achieved it.

“May I finish you off with this cane?” He now controlled both vibrators with his right hand as his left employed a small, thin cane to tap on my scalded bottom.

“Yes, please finish…” I gasped.

That flicking cane was just enough to trigger a monumental orgasm. He continued to strike it against my skin even as I moaned in ecstasy. I loved every second.

There are no losers in the submission game. We both won. He measured my submission and found it to his liking. I tested my own mettle and emerged victorious.

After I was unhitched, cooled down, and relaxed, I repaid his loving attention with my own style of oral gratitude. Randy was favorably impressed. Yes, this was a good game and a fine way to spend an evening at home together!

Keywords: spanking, submission, paddle spanking, belt spanking, caning, spanking story, spanking and sex, anal sex, bondage

Submissive versus Equal?

Self Spanker recently posed three challenging questions. These are the kind of queries for which there can be no single right response. So much depends upon context – the individuals involved and the dynamics of their relationship. In answering, the best I can hope to accomplish is to share my perspective. Nonetheless, these are interesting topics worthy of our consideration.

1. Is it possible to be submissive and equal simultaneously?

At first glance, these two states seem clearly irreconcilable. If one chooses to be submissive, they are, by definition, placing themselves below their dom(me).

But that needn’t be the end of the story. In practice, these two concepts are considerably more malleable than their dictionary definitions might suggest. Submission can mean a 24/7 total power exchange master/slave relationship where one partner is in full control at all times. The same term can be used just as correctly to describe a lover’s occasional desire to lend some of her control to her partner during a lovemaking session.

Mathematics teaches us that many different formulas can yield the same numerical result. Equal does not mean identical. In a relationship, partners routinely take the lead in areas where they have a stronger interest or aptitude. If these responsibilities roughly even out, we can say that the two roles are generally equal overall. This can be true even if one partner exercises complete control in one aspect of life.

Randy and I are approximately equal. Spankings are clearly his domain. He leads and I like it that way. But counterbalancing this facet of our lives is a separate set of responsibilities that I handle independently. So, the technical answer to the question is “no,” because I am not simultaneously submissive and equal. However, when viewed from a broader perspective, I can indeed be both.


2. Does the fact that you submit to spanking negatively impact your standing in your relationship?

I don’t believe so. If anything, it’s quite the opposite. Spankings bring us closer and increase our mutual appreciation.


3. Do you or your partner view you as the lesser member of the relationship, or are you equal in all things other than spanking?

I would say the answer to both parts is “no.” I am a full member of the relationship. I have the right and the responsibility to help guide our direction.

At the same time, I am not equal in all things other than spanking. We each have our own unique skills and we divide up work and responsibility along those lines.

I recognize that this answer is not nearly so satisfying as a simple yes or no. But in the world of human interactions, nuances are everything!