Sunday, February 17, 2008

Recap: MBS Sunday Brunch for Feb 17

Our topic this week was punishment spankings. Specifically, the question considered the seeming paradox of using something we love as a punishment.

Greenwoman: Having my man mad at me or disappointed in me is enough to totally change the experience of a spanking.

Besides that, it really hurts when they get mad... They don't warm up the skin… Ouchies!

Natty: This is the perennial discussion we have over at the Punishment Book, and I think that for certain people, the answer is yes. But only for certain people.

It works for me because I really dislike actually being in trouble. I love to pretend to be naughty. I love getting spanked on my terms -- i.e. as play. Punishment spankings sort of take spankings out of the realm of fun and sully them by placing them within the context of genuine disappointment, frustration, and failure.

Some people are unable to take that seriously. My boyfriend cannot divorce being spanked from sexual pleasure and therefore it doesn't work as behavior modification for him. But for me, for the reasons listed above, it's extremely effective.

Here are some additional thoughts from the Punishment Book.

Lele: I hate to give what may be a clichéd answer, but I think it's very psychological. Specifically, (1) you've disappointed someone you love, and (2) you know that this type of spanking won't just stop when you're turned on, but rather when you're VERY sore and VERY sorry!

It makes a huge difference to me!

Anon #1: It sure wasn't any fun when my dad did it. It was an intrusion, but the violation was so unpleasant that I didn't want to get another spanking.

Now my boyfriend does it and it is a turn-on. I want him to do it. Thanks, Dad, for making me a spanko. This is not something I am proud of. I will make every effort to bring up my own children so that they don't crave spankings when they are older.

Anon #2: I agree with Lele and Greenwoman, in that when I have angled for a spanking by being "naughty," it’s fun to play that role. But when I have actually annoyed/angered him, it changes the whole experience. I know he is disappointed in me, and that upsets me. I don’t feel sexy, but bad, until it’s over and I am forgiven, and soooooo sore. However, after making me wait a while to reflect, my ass gets some nice attention, kisses and rubs and massages until ooooooooooooohhhhhhhh, yes. That’s definitely more like it…

RPT: Fun spankings end up in the bedroom with sex.

Punishment spankings end up in the corner with a scolding.

But mostly, it is a mental attitude.

Susan: My punishment is being denied a smarting bottom when I desperately want it, and much later getting a spanking when I have gone off the boil.

Tina: in my life, playing and punishment are two very similar things. When we do punishments, which we occasionally do, they are not “real life” punishments. For us, punishments are just another name for the game. A punishment game involves serious pain, but I still really like to do it. It just feels so good to have to say that I am sorry over and over again and to hear him telling me off. I love to be able to just scream and shout and beg him to stop and forgive me, and to let all the tension go, and not to be under any pressure to stay calm or professional, and to live - for short time - under the illusion of not having any responsibility. "Normal" spankings don’t quite do that for me.

Lori: The whole dynamic is different. During play, there is no scolding. It's lighthearted and makes me laugh. During punishment, the disappointment comes through loud and clear and the spanking feels so much different. It's a much more intense spanking that is intended to teach, at least in our house.

Lost In Our Eyes: I think I'm in tune with most of the posts so far. The difference is one is playful and happy, while the other means I've done a bad job keeping my lover happy.

That, and she tends to pull out the least-fun toys...*shudder*

I ramble on in a little more detail back at the blog, but that's the gist!

Paul: The others have more or less covered the subject.

When Mel got her degrees and life became more serious, punishments became quite rare. I hated giving them and, of course, Mel hated receiving them. Mel would be really told off. This would often have her in tears before the spanking started.

Spankings always took place in the office and were hard. She always knew that I loved her. But it was necessary for the lesson to sink in, so it was a while before aftercare. Mel would kneel at the side of my desk. It was so hard not to react to her woe-begotten face. After an hour or so, I'd take her upstairs and give her the care and love she always deserved.

The reconnecting was always great.

Hermione: That's a very good question, and one that my husband has often asked. His reasoning is similar to Susan's comment. If I enjoy being spanked, then punishment is withholding a spanking. Being spanked as punishment would just encourage a repetition of the unwanted behavior in order get another spanking. That makes sense to me, and I would probably do just that. It would be like spanking on demand.

For my many crimes of commission and omission, I get lectures. They create anxiety and fear, but don't do much to change my behaviour, I'm still far from perfect.

Prefectdt: For play, it is with somebody else.

For punishment, I self discipline (self spank), which I do not enjoy at all.

Abby: For as much as we play and as much as I write about it, we would never use spanking as an actual punishment. We won't have rules, and I don't get in actual trouble. We pretend I do, up and down the block, but this is where the spanking fetish gets confused with domestic discipline. I never have to fear being punished for something. It's all play, in the long run, even if it feels like it's punishment at the time. We might use a real life situation to play off of, but it's never a husband punishing a wife. It's taking life and making it work for our fetish.

There are a few Anonymous replies here, but there's one that refers to her father. I don't normally jump in with comments like this, and forgive me if I'm commenting out of turn, but anonynous, it might help to find someone to talk to, be it close friend or counselor. If anger with your father is getting confused with your romantic life and making you feel ashamed, this might not be what will make you happy in the long run. Or maybe it will, if you own it as something you enjoy and something that's a part of you, not something that someone inflicted upon you.

Thank you, Abby, for your thoughtful response to Anon. I considered editing that comment from this summary on the grounds that childhood experiences are off topic. But after reading your reply, I decided to keep both in the hope that your words might help someone.

Purple Angel: This seems to be an ongoing question in every group I belong to and it sure is a legitimate one. It seems to be a contradiction, but it really isn't.

I believe a great deal of it is mindset. I do not like punishment spankings and I absolutely love, adore, and crave other spankings. But there is a need in me for the serious ones too.

First of all, whatever I have done has me disappointed in myself, feeling guilty and feeling miserable that I let others down as well. I always get lectured and that is a crucial piece to the puzzle. I often begin crying before anything has come near my bottom. Also, during this type of spanking, I do not allow my mind to go off in other directions. Granted my body has its usual physical response to spanking, but I don't even realize it at the time.

My attention is focused on the continuing scolding and questions throughout the spanking. Many times, I cry throughout the spanking. But at the end, I am able to release the guilt, apologize, thank the person who cared enough to give what was so needed.
I will also tell you they work for me. Since they became part of my life, the number of times I need them has decreased dramatically.

Oh, and the best part is that I get instead all kinds of lovely Just Because and sensual spankings. Now those are a whole different story.

Elle: Hmmm. Interesting. In my relationship, he views himself as a leader or a teacher, and dominant over me. But as for actually punishing me, whenever he starts to, I enjoy it... and so does he! We end up just having "extra angry" sex as a result of whatever has annoyed him. That's just the way we are I guess.

Jean Marie: Many have already posted that the dynamic is different, but for us there are more distinctions.

For play, there can be a whole range of implements used, but never the two that I hate most, the big hairbrush and the cane. Those two are exclusively utilized for punishment. Both can elicit tears before they come in contact with my tush. They hurt so much. I hate them so!

Play may go on for a long time and end up being painful, but when I've been naughty and am in need of punishment and Kyle intends to whip me hard for some serious wrong, he'll give me an enema first. We both know that I won't be sitting afterward. During play he may caress and even lubricate my rectum, but it's sexy then. The enema procedure makes me shudder because I know I'm in for it good and hard.

Positioning can be a part of it. I love the intimacy of snuggling over his lap during playful spankings. Knowing this, Kyle will deny me that pleasure during a punishment session. I'm often made to bend over in the middle of an open room and grab my ankles, or else bend over the bed, so that I have something to collapse upon if the whipping goes on for a long duration.

Playful spanking will segue directly to love-making, but my man will withhold that reward for awhile as well after punishment. He knows I hate corner-time, so that trial awaits me after punishment sometimes. And if I'm not obedient in keeping my nose pressed to a wall, or bent over obscenely displaying my marks, I will often get another dose of discipline.

But even if the play and the punishment are restricted to a bare bottom, over-the-knee hand spanking, there's still a world of difference. Kyle gets quiet when I've raised his ire; the spanks come hard and fast. There are no caresses or compliments. It is nothing like the giggling, talkative repartee that we share during play when his hand and my heiny share a colloquy.

So there's NO confusion between play and punishment in our household.

Bonnie: My answer is similar to Abby’s. Randy and I enjoy many types of spankings and we play fairly regularly. But genuine punishment is not part of our relationship. It’s simply not who we are.

We enjoy every spanking. Even if I am gritting my teeth, it’s not because I don’t like what’s happening. We consider spanking, like other forms of lovemaking, a celebration and a physical manifestation of the love between us. I crave spankings from Randy and he wants to spank me. It reaffirms our bond and clears the barriers that divide us.

Randy once said that punishing me with spanking would be about as effective as making me eat chocolate cake. I suppose indulging in either to excess could eventually become tiresome, but I’m not likely to lose my taste for either recreational spankings or chocolate cake anytime soon.

Jeana: All the spankings I get are completely erotic. There are times when I wonder things like, "why I am putting myself through pain like this for fun?" But I enjoy it every time. I'm not sure if the whole punishment thing would work for me, but it is something we agreed we would not try. Sometimes when Will is spanking me, he will bring up something I did to somehow deserve it, but this is all playful.

Thank you all for sharing your perspectives. As I anticipated, responses covered a wide variety of viewpoints. Clearly, punishment spankings aren’t for everyone. But for those couples who employ this method of problem resolution, the results can be very positive.


Rosy said...

I'm sorry I missed this brunch.

We don't use spankings as punishment. Usually, after a little time to cool off/think about it, I realize my fault (or he his), and immediately go to make up. My paradox is that I hate making what we call "stupids," but I love making up!

The only kind of spanking that we do outside of the bedroom is for stress relief. I learned fairly early that even though I usually handle stress really well, it can build up and overwhelm me. If I can manage a huge-&-hot-tear cry, the stress melts away. Sometimes the situation lends itself to a good cry, and I can cry on command, so to speak. The other times, a short, intense paddling always brings on those healing tears. In either situation, I am the one to ask for it, and he is always so very helpul. :)

K said...

I've been reading the brunches for several weeks now, but had nothing to add since hubby and I are so new to spanking. The first time I have something to say and I missed it. Ah well..
Punishment spankings or the DD stuff that I've read wouldn't work for us. Hubby and I are partners and we both like it that way. He made a comment recently about me being in charge of household stuff and him being in charge in the bedroom. We each have our strengths that compliments the other. That said, we have both noticed that when I am well satisfied, now including spankings, I get much more done around the house. It's not a matter of 'if I do this then he does that' or rewarding behavior or anything. It's just a matter of feeling overly content and joyful and that spills over into spiffying up the nest so hubby will have a nice place to relax when he gets home and feel appreciated.

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