Sunday, April 06, 2008

Recap: MBS Sunday Brunch for Apr 6

Our question this week dealt with a dilemma faced by a young gentleman. He wonders about best means to introduce spanking to a conservative woman. Here is your advice.

Mary: Given the youthful age, I just want to caution that if you do enter into this type of relationship, it can increase the sense of vulnerability she feels and possibly you too, so please be sure you are willing to provide emotional support as well as fun. That said, I can say I knew even when I was 18 that I wanted to be spanked. However, I did not find "him" then, and I created a very uncomfortable situation when I broached this subject with my boyfriend. He turned me down flat and then told my best friend. I was mortified when she told me how weird he found my request. Do not be too discouraged. I survived the event.

Now for you to move forward, I would recommend trying little things like playfully scolding when an opportunity comes up and see what she does. For example, if you both are playfully tickling or wrestling, tell her calmly, "Okay, time to stop." If she continues, you could playfully threaten to spank her. If she says, "You wouldn't dare" with a wink or a smile, and then continues to tickle, she too is testing the waters. You could offer a playful swat or two over the pants and see if it is accepted well. Kiss and make light of it for the time, and then talk later. Let her know it was fun for you. However, if her response is to say something like, "How dare you talk to me like that," then she is most likely not interested and offended, so apologize and perhaps keep looking for someone who wants to enjoy spanking with you. Try patting her bottom during a kiss or complimenting her in new jeans by saying that her butt looks spankingly delicious. If she seems comfortable with those types of things, it is a good sign. The main thing is to take baby steps. Don't rush or push too fast. If you win her trust and respect, she will be more likely to be open to increasing the amount of spanking she engages in. There are things I enjoy now, but the first time my guy brought it up, he just presented it as something that might be fun. I never felt pushed, so I would consider his ideas for a while, and talk further, and think for a week or two. Generally, as I grow to trust him to care about me and how I feel, I want to try new things to make him happy as well. Most of the time, I find the new play fun. Although you may want to have some relaxing vanilla sex a few times and stay in familiar territory before trying it again. It’s always a bit of a balance. Good luck.

Paul: I agree with Mary. Take very tiny baby steps at first.

Try jokes, little compliments, observe how good she looks in tight jeans or how much you like her rear, and how much it turns you on.

Always remember that you are trying to enter the sort of relationship that requires a great deal of trust.

Bending over, or over the knee for a spanking, even a gentle loving one, makes a girl feel very vulnerable. Spanking of this nature is, I believe, a loving activity, so with the spanking you need to show loving and caring. Softly, softly, catchee spankee!

Baby steps, trust, loving and caring.

AKA Ireland: My wife and I met in college. I knew I was a spanko at the time, and she was not. The great thing was she was not opposed to playfully swatting or getting swatted when we were fooling around. We were young and both open to just about everything.

As time went on, it didn't take much discussion, she could tell what turned me on, and was OK with it. As we did more, pushed some boundaries, we found it could really turn her on too if done right.

Now, many years later, I can talk very openly about what I'd like to try and why. However, even as recently as a few years ago, I would get nervous about bringing it up. She actually told me to stop, and just talk about it if I need to. She understands completely.

So for advice, I would say, start slow, in the context of being intimate, and let her see what effect it has on you (For me, it's tough to hide when pants aren't involved. LOL).

For more a more discipline based relationship, I don't have much. I would say wait until you have a very strong trusting relationship and then just be honest.

Michael: If you are in a sexual relationship, then one way forward might be to open up a discussion about fantasies. If this gets going, then you might suggest that you imagine yourself being spanked by a beautiful girl. If this is the girl for you, then she might come up with a similar set of dreams. If not at least you have found out what she is turned on by so you can have fun with that. Who knows? You might get a spanking from her and enjoy that just as much.

If you are not having sex yet, then try a few taps on her bottom whilst you are kissing and see if you get a wiggle. In today’s electronic world, you could also send her a straight forward e mail - "Any chance that I can spank your beautiful bottom?" You might get the reply of your dreams or just a straight "no way."

Jeana: I was in the same kind of relationship as you at 18. I had been dating this super conservative guy all through high school. There really wasn’t much to the relationship in terms of a sex life, but we thought we loved each other. Anyway, after about three years, I flat out asked him to spank me, and he freaked out. I mean really freaked out. He asked me why I wanted to be abused. He also tried to figure out things from my friends about my childhood and whether or not I was abused (Just for the record, I was never physically abused by anyone, or even spanked at all). He started to distance himself from me, and a few months later, we graduated high school and he moved to another country to help with his favorite religious cause. So there is just about the worst possible outcome. As Mary stated, I survived it and have moved on to better situations.

Six months later, I met the guy to whom I am now married. He was more than willing to spank me. It was a first time experience for both of us. My advice, if she is willing to try, would be to go slow. Don't rush into it because you don't want to scare her.

Also, considering the age, she is probably more likely to tell her friends about this experience than an older person would be. So you need to make extra sure the experience is a positive one where you don't end up with her best friends telling her it is strange or abusive.

Finally, you might be surprised. After being in a such a conservative relationship for so many years, I was more than ready to change. It was fun! She might just be waiting for someone to encourage it.

Aaron: I’m just commenting because I'm the one who asked. I’d like to clarify a few things.
  1. I'm not sexually active, and don't plan on being so until I am married.
  2. Despite my conservative values, I have long known I was a spanko, and have chosen to pursue this part of my sex life when it comes.
  3. The spanking I'm looking for is not dominance/submission or DD type. It's all about fun and sex.
Thanks for your advice and I hope that helps you to give better advice.

Raheretic: Aaron, here are a couple of observations that I hope provide you something that is of value.

Most of us who share a sensual erotic orientation to spanking, know of this orientation from childhood (whether we actualize its expression early on or later in life). In my case I have been completely aware that this was my sensual erotic identity from my very earliest memories.

You, yourself, I would assess (without any judgment entailed) are relatively conservative in your planned evolution into adult sexuality, wanting to forego intercourse at age 18 until you are married. Yet, you have confidence that spanking is a central theme of your sensual erotic orientation. There is no reason to assume, therefore, that because your partner is "conservative" she will necessarily be unwilling to embrace spanking as an expression of fun, excitement, and intimacy.

It sounds as though you feel you have a partner or partners with whom you wish to be more sensually intimate. You are also very intentional about your limits in that regard. I would imagine that might come to involve conversation between you about what it is you both like and want to experience. At least I hope for you that discussion is part of your relationship. I would be up front that you feel tremendously erotically drawn to and fulfilled by spanking, and you hope that she too could find that exciting and fun and bonding.

Depending on how "in depth" your relationship is, and what you are both comfortable with, there is a book, "When Someone You Love Is Kinky," that is a good way to begin a conversation between a partner wanting to move into a relatively more "kinky" expression like spanking, and a partner for whom that is new territory.

The book, "The Compleat Spanker" by Lady Green, provides a wonderful examination of adult consensual spanking from all angles: how to do it, how to receive it, values, philosophy, variations, etc. and is useful in destigmatizing the subject for folks who are new to the concept.

There is risk, of course, in exposing your sensual identity that perhaps you will find partners who will not embrace this important aspect of who you are. If so, that is about them and not you. You have an absolute right to be who you are.

When the topic of whether one should "expose" their sensual erotic identity to a relationship partner comes up, I am always reminded of the quote from the great psychotherapist Fritz Perls, "If you are not for yourself, then who will be? If not now, then when?"

Mary: Nor was I sexually active when I first asked to be spanked (Since it can be such a fun element to life, I think it is important to marry someone who feels the same way as you do.) I guess that is why I mentioned tickling, wrestling, and kissing. That was some of the silly fun stuff we did to ease the sexual tension when sex wasn't an option. BTW, this means that sometimes us conservative girls enjoy spanking too.

Bratscorcher: You mention the man is approaching "a fairly conservative woman" in this scenario as if that makes it more daunting a challenge. The fact that she is "conservative" makes it all the more enticing!

He may have an undiscovered gold mine. That is, a conservative woman of refinement and sophistication that in private yearns to be punished for her wicked desires. (After all, the Victorians were a pretty conservative lot!)

The approach here is very simple. First, you have to have already achieved a certain level of connection. You should have gone on at least a two dates as a minimum. After that, when she commits some minor / innocent type offense, let's say she is late somewhere or spends more than she expected to at a store or overcooked the pasta or whatever, then you say, just as if it is a pleasant little joke, "Oh, well, do remind me the next time you do that and I'll give you a good spanking."

Now the all important part, gauge her response. If she says, "Oh really?..." the voice inflection may say it all. If she says something like, "you and what army?" or "in your dreams," then, that’s not good and it’s probably time to move on. And if she says, "would that be a bare bottom spanking?" Then you have hit the JACKPOT.

It really is an exciting process! Good luck!

NEVER do as Jeana mentioned earlier and make a flat out request. It’s too risky!

Todd and Suzy: It really depends upon how important spanking is to you. If it's close to a must-have, you really just need to bring it up and ask her directly. You really don't want to be too shy or coy about the subject. That’s not really a 'spanker' thing to do.

If spanking would just be a nice bonus during sexual play, try some playful swats during sex and see what reaction you get.

Jean Marie: My advice is to be honest.

Make vanilla love with this conservative woman as you have been. Then afterward, during pillow-talk, confide that something's been lacking for you. If she cares for you and wants to know what that is, show her. Make love to her again from behind and sensually spank her behind as you do. Compliment her on her bottom, telling her that it's the seat of eroticism for you. Talk to her about all the nerve endings in her hind-end, and let her see how their stimulation is sexual stimulation. Being a spanko, the sex should be markedly better. Maybe she'll catch on.

If she's put off, maybe it's a face-saving act, and you could try a different tack. Turn her over your knee forcefully, tell her that she's selfish and prudish and give her a little taste of real discipline. Make the spanking something out of a bodice-ripping romance novel. Tell her it hurts you to have to do this, but that she needs it. Then let her have it (in moderation). Be a Tarzan and see if a Jane hides within her. See if she responds to this.

If not, again be honest; this time with yourself. She'd prefer to be with some accountant making missionary-position sex once a month. You go out and find another spanko and set the world and her ass on fire.

Best of luck!

Elle: You could try a few love taps to test the waters, but really I think the only way is a proper discussion, especially if you want to be married before sex. You need to talk about this before you marry someone because if it's as big a part of sex to you as it is to me (and no doubt thousands of others!), you need a partner who is willing to fulfill your needs. Otherwise, it will be a major stumbling block to the relationship. Just talk about other aspects of sex and then slowly bring up this topic. It sounds harder than it is, I promise.

Of course, spankings don't HAVE to be sexual. My best friend has been known to bend me over and give me a series of very fast hard slaps and he's gay. Between us, spanking is just fun and a laugh. There are no sexual connotations whatsoever! If you can separate spanking from sex and make it purely fun (and like I said, it can be done), you could try it before marriage, surely?

Just a suggestion.

Bonnie: Aaron, I was going to let you be anonymous. But since you’ve joined the discussion, I’ll speak directly to you. It’s an interesting conundrum you’ve placed before us. You consider spanking to be sexual (as many of us do). You’re not interested in a sexual relationship at this time (which is certainly a valid choice). And yet, you seek a woman with whom you can share this part of your sexuality. Do you see the contradiction?

Open-mindedness is generally a positive trait in a partner, especially if one has kinky proclivities. However, the combination of being adventurous with regard to spanking and comparatively disinterested in other aspects of sexuality may be difficult to find. Even if you decide that spanking will be non-sexual, as Elle describes, it won’t be easy to conceal your true feelings. Besides, if you’re starting off by being dishonest about your sexual interest, that doesn’t bode well for the relationship.

You might want to re-examine your values and your priorities. Is spanking so important that you would be willing to reconsider celibacy? Or is saving sex until marriage so important that you would be willing to postpone spanking as well? While it’s clear that neither option is attractive for you, that may be the choice you face.

Aaron: I appreciate all your comments and advice.

Bonnie, you bring up a very good point, and one that I did not clarify. Celibacy is more important to me than spanking at this point. However, once I am married, celibacy will no longer be an issue.

I am asking because I want to make sure that when I find this girl with whom I want to share my life, I want her to be comfortable with this part of me. I want to discuss what I want from my sex life before I get engaged.

I came here because there is no one in my circle of advisors that would be of any help in this subject. Most of my advisors would consider this "sick" or "perverted" They just don't get it. Erotic spanking is difficult to justify to conservative people and thus I have been made to keep this part of my life a secret.

But I don't want it to be a secret or something I never indulge in. I came here asking because I realize that this sort of thing is normal, and most of you guys are significantly older than me, so I trust you for advice on this.

Thanks for your time, and Bonnie, thanks for wanting to keep me anonymous. I just realized about three comments in that if I didn't clarify a few things I was going to get a lot of fluff that I didn't need.

Anna: I disagree that flat out statements are always a bad idea. It depends upon the temperament of the individual. I find that I would actually prefer a direct statement. Then I could say, "I'm not comfortable with that," "Oooooh baby!" or "Hmmmmmm..... tell me more." Why not just ask her what the best way to address sensitive topics would be from her perspective? A discussion about spanking is not going to be the only sensitive topic to arise during a life long relationship. If you approach these conversations in a way that is likely to keep the communication channel open, you will have a much more successful relationship.

Mary: If you are waiting on all sexual aspects of relationships until marriage and spanking is sexual, then an out loud adult discussion is definitely needed before you consider marrying. You can read from prior brunches that plenty of people struggle to bring this into the relationship after the fact. Some get lucky, but others always feel it lacking. Before you consider getting serious, there are many things to talk about. These include roles within the home, who works, how many children, how to handle holidays, and how disagreements will be handled. Is yelling okay? Is walking away okay? Or is there a way to take a breather and come back to a conversation later when both are calm? How much sex does she want in the relationship? Once a week? Everyday and twice on Sunday? Does she want to explore once married or does she find it some sort of obligation? What are her intimate fantasies that she hopes to explore once married? What are your secret desires? What is okay between married couples? What can never be considered? Are there words that should never be said? Are there expectations of gifts or expectations of duty? Who handles the money and how much money should be tithed, spent, and saved? Where do you hope to live?

I think if you are waiting until marriage, then at some point when you think she may be the one, you will have to come out and ask (and not only about spanking). Start asking all of these questions. We all have a picture of how it should be in our heads. Many marriages don't make it because we assume the other person's picture is the same as our own. In reality, we should check this out beforehand rather than learn the hard way. Not knowing what to ask, I assumed my former spouse would love having sex once we were married. He rarely wanted it. Even in the first months, it was often only once or twice a week. I was devastated and disappointed because I valued waiting, but thought of sex as a healthy part of life once married. I wish I would have asked more questions, but I didn't know what to ask. So I just provided you with some of the things I wish I would have known to ask before saying “I do.”

What I will say, is that I feel fairly confident that there is nothing perverted or sick when it is a lovingly shared pleasure and intimacy between a committed couple that values and respects each other. You are very wise to want to sort some of the "how to's" out now.

By the way, not only do you have Randy and Bonnie to admire as a happy, healthy couple, but you can look back at the brunches at what Paul writes. To me, you can still hear the love in his "voice" when he speaks of his marriage and their enjoyment of spanking.) Best of luck.

Bonnie: The task you’ve set for yourself will not be easy. I’ve talked with many different types of spanking enthusiasts during the two and a half years I’ve operated this blog. I observe that many women are not sufficiently comfortable with their sexuality to reveal their darkest fantasies, even to their husbands, until they reach their thirties or forties. While this phenomenon is certainly not universal, it may be unfair to judge a young and inexperienced woman based upon her current sexual expectations. We all grow and evolve over time. If you judge too quickly, you could throw away a true gem.

So to come full circle, how do you introduce the idea (if perhaps not yet the reality) of erotic spanking to a conservative young woman? I think Paul’s response was right on target. You do it slowly, playfully, and with affection.

Thanks to everyone who contributed! I hope you’ll join us again next week.


Hermione said...

This has been a totally fascinating brunch! I had absolutely no advice to give, and have really enjoyed the exchange of ideas.


Indiana said...

I especially agree with Bonnie's last comment. When I was eighteen, I'd had submissive spanking fantasies for at least a dozen years, and I think I even dimly understood by that time that they were sexual. Nonetheless, I wouldn't have responded well at all to a direct approach-- I would have been extremely confused and would have interpreted the suggestion that I take a spanking as a power play. I agree with the baby steps approach. Perhaps discuss a range of sexual behaviors, or read a book about sexual fantasies together. Even if you choose not to engage in sexual activity until you're married, you can gauge her openness to a bit of sexual adventure. I agree that you should stress the erotic and fun component, and perhaps you'd do well to share your own submissive fantasies, whether or not they involve spanking. Good luck, Aaron!

Terpsichore said...

I met my husband when I was 19 and we were together for many years before getting married. And our wedding night was our first time. I had always known I wanted to be spanked but never realized it was connected to my sexuality until I was much older. And it took me several years of being married before I felt comfortable sharing with my husband. The funny thing is that even if I had met another spanko when I was 18 I do not know how I would have reacted to it, even with myself being a spanko. I may not have been ready because it is such a sensual feeling for me. However, when we were dating my husband gave me little love taps once and a while and I enjoyed every one. So I think the idea of baby steps and being playful is a great idea...and then with time a conversation could develop from that. I wish you the best of life!

Love4her said...

My comment has more to do with your sexual needs overall, be it spanking or whatever. Be honest about what turns you on and expect the same from her, any her. I can look back at several young ladies I dated and had sexual relationships with. Had I been able to find the will power to be honest about my needs and desires things could have been much more fun.

Waiting until you are married for several years is not the time to open the fetish treasure chest. It may be, as in my case, your only option. It is often sadly the time a lot of people, myself included, finally feel comfortable enough to become honest and let their needs be known.

Hopefully this is not so true of our present generation in their 20s ... they seem so anything goes. Even so, when one is expressing intimate desires and needs, and mixes that with a fear of being rejected by one you love because of the same, one can not help but be a little reticent.

Be honest. Be playful. Be non-threatening. Be Loving. Let your needs be known but be an excellent listener and fill her needs too. I can’t think of a bigger turn on than having a lover feel comfortable enough with me than to feel they can tell me anything.

Perhaps you can agree to be an intimate vault for each others sexual ideas. ...... Knowledge goes in but is not reveled to anyone and is only used for each others pleasure together.

Marin said...

very interesting topic... I would consider myself about as conservative as it gets in almost every aspect of my world, my husband also. However, I was interested in spanking for a long time, didn't really know there was such a large community out there that was also. This blog enabled me to confide in my husband, who became a willing, but somewhat nervous participant. Now he is really growing to like it. My point being that being conservative does not mean AT ALL that spanking is out of the question. It has actually been the best thing to happen to my happy marriage!

sixofthebest said...

Give me one hour with Sarah Palin, and she will be hollering most painfully, after I bend her over a table, raise her dress waist high, pull down her bloomers down to around her ankles, and cane that voluptous bare bottom of hers 25 times. And I mean a good and proper caning of 25 hard strokes. That's how I would deal with a 'conservative naughty woman.

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