Sunday, July 16, 2006

MBS Spanko Brunch #26


Several weeks ago, we discussed methods for finding the spanko of your dreams. For many people, however, starting over is not a reasonable option. These folks are in a relationship with an otherwise worthy, but utterly vanilla partner. Our question today examines this dilemma.

Do you think it's possible / practical to "convert" a vanilla partner? If so, what techniques would you suggest? If not, would you consider ending the relationship, seeking spankings elsewhere, or giving up the kink altogether?

I invite you to share your insights and experiences. Please leave a comment below, send me an e-mail, or post a response on your own blog. Once everyone has submitted their responses, I will publish a summary of the discussion.

Thank you, as always, for your thoughtful wisdom.


Doc said...

This is a particularely interesting question for me at the moment. I have a vanilla partner and a double chocolate spanking kink. We've been in a relationship for almost a year now and it was only last week that I finally 'came out.' It hasn't really been addressed but small things have happened since I admitted my needs.

My partner is now endevouring to see what they are comfortable with, and I find myself posatively quivering with the anticipation and possabilities.

I think what really helped was when they discovered my erotica and politely asked to borrow it. Seeing as it is my only 'naughty book' and visably well used I think they understand that I am interested in its contents (The sleeping beauty series by Anne Rice). I think a conversation that doesn't put pressure on the vanilla partner is the way to go. If you and your partner are truly good for one another they will see how well you respond. I know that mine is noticing.

cuddlybum said...

Well it depends on what you mean by 'converting'..... I hadn't been spanked before the beloved came along, he wasn't interested in spanking before I came along, but when I mentioned it, and we started trying it, we both enjoyed it!!!!

I didn't actually didn't bring it up - the beloved found some books that...ahem...naturally fall open to certain pages - he couldn't believe I had books and books of sex fileld scenes and they all opened on the spanking scenes!! SO we talked, and then we tried it and things went on from there.

If it came to a choice between the spanking adn the beloved? I'd pick the beloved every time - its only a facet of our relationship and not the entirety. He's so much more than spanking to me - and I never want to lose him.


jeanmarie said...

The previous two postings are lovely. I wish that I were writing something similar, but my experience is different.
I've tried to "convert" a vanilla partner before; the enticement of hot sex was enough to intrigue this guy into following my none-too-subtle suggestions to both initially try spanking me, and then doing it progressively harder. (Excuse my cynicism, but most men are horn-dogs.) Even though I was getting what I wanted, I felt indulged, it wasn't really shared. It was always at my suggestion, it wasn't spontaneous. Therefore, it wasn't enough. I ended the relationship, and vowed that I'd only get involved with people who are as dyed-in-the-wool, hard-core, deep down all the way to the bone kinky from then on. I still haven't found that true love, even though I'm in a monogomous (monotonous) relationship (that features regular spankings). I couldn't be unfaithful and get that vital aspect elsewhere, I don't think. (But, maybe, if I found absolute true love with someone who was vanilla, I would grow to feel differently, and seek spankings elsewhere. That situation would seem even more desperate than the one I'm in.) I could not give up the need for frequent and varietal spankings. I could more easily give up the need to breathe.
Jean Marie

Mike said...

I think it depends on what you need in a spanking relationship. If a nice erotic spanking in foreplay is what you want, I think it's entirely possible to "convert" someone. As long as both people are interested in pleaseing the other, I think once the spankees desires are known, things could work.

Like jeanmarie said though, I don't think it would always be the perfect fantasy spanking.

As for a DD relationship, I think it would be very difficult, but I'm sure it's happened.


Paul said...

I could possibly convert a vanilla partner to spanking by emphasising the foreplay aspects.
But I don't see this a long term solution.
Seeking this sort of relationship outside of a long term partnership strikes me as rather dangerous.
For me spanking is so tied in with intimacy that sharing would almost certainly lead to a breakup and a lot of pain for both partners.
Tread very carefully, "here be dragons".
Interesting question Bonnie, thanks.

Scarlett said...

Oh Bonnie I could talk on this subject for ages!

I am in a vanilla marriage to a man I adore and have really tried to convert him over the years, buying books (and leaving the next to the bed), toys (in the bed!), dropping hints (him "You put sugar in my coffee when you know I take it without" Me - "Well spank my ass honey!"), having heartfelt discussions - you name it - I have tried it. My ongoing efforts are to simply act submissively around him to allow him the control – but he still does not have the cop on to grasp that control I so want him to take.
And without going in to too much detail, I have resigned myself sadly to the fact he is not one jot interested and if anything, he is submissive himself.

I had 3 options: read about it here
I could either:
1. Ignore my submissive nature/need to be spanked and focus on our marriage
2. Seek a spanko relationship outside of the marriage either with or without his consent.
3. Leave the marriage
I tried option 1 for a long time, but I could not contain my desire to get spanking experience.
I am now working on option 2 (without his consent) and am treading an emotional high-wire. To do it with his consent is perhaps the next stage,
Option 3 is something I shudder to contemplate just now.

So in answer to your questions.
Do you think it's possible / practical to "convert" a vanilla partner? If he ain’t got a dominant one in his body then he can not be converted. If anyone knows of any new technique that works I will reward them handsomely.
Would I consider ending the relationship? I would and I have, but it is not a viable option for me personally (for a variety of reasons that I can not go in to here)
Would I give up my kink altogether? I tried it and could not. I can not renounce my sexual being and I am a happier person, wife and parent since I have explored my kink outside of my marriage.

I do not want harsh judgements (I have had enough of that on my blog!) but this whole subject is an area in which I have a fair deal of experience and just wanted to share it with your readers.

Happy Sunday to ya!
love Scarlett xxx

Anonymous said...

This is my first response in your brunch as the subject matter is near and dear to me.

I think its very difficult to change a vanilla partner. I'm still trying and have had limited success. Most times I just hide my need. Sad, but true. Its just not in him. I love him and that's the most important thing to me.

Tried the other option of seeking elsewhere but the sad reality of that was that I really wanted my partner. So... not a whole lot of satisfaction there even though my need was met. I got to experience it. However, the damage after all was said and done was just awful.

Now, I live vicariously through the blogs. Thank God for you all!
And...occasionally I get what I need, if I ask. (its just hard to ask)

Dyke Grrl said...

I guess I'm lucky. My wife wasn't precisely vanilla when we met, but she wasn't into spanking per se. In fact, she was uncomfortable with the idea. There are a lot of posts on my blog about the process of moving from the mostly pleasurable spankings I'd asked for and received early on in our relationship to the slightly more DD flavored relationship we've got now.

I think some of "conversion" is a matter of compromise: how much is each partner willing to do for the other partner's benefit. I think it's not just about the spanko partner getting their needs met, but also about the non-spanko partner feeling like there is give and take in the relationship.

The main technique I suggest? Talking ("processing," as my lesbian-feminist crowd refers to it). Talking, and compromise. And being willing to take your time with it. But be direct: I think a non-spanko just isn't inclined to pick up on those subtle hints. And even if they do, I suspect many people are reluctant to do something seemingly abusive (say, spank you for bratting because they're annoyed by it).

Actually, as I read other people's blogs, I think that communication and compromise are vital, whether or not one of the partners was originally vanilla.

I've got only sympathy for those people who love someone who is staunchly, steadfastly vanilla, or who reacts with disgust when they bring it up.

As it stands, I will stay with my wife, and continue this process of communication and compromise.

Oh, and one more tip for those not currently in a relationship: at the beginning, when you have less to lose, take a chance and bring it up. It lays a foundation for later change. And I do mean bring it up directly: it's incredibly hard, but, well, it leaves the least room for misunderstanding.

Damnation's Cellar said...

I think it's possible to convert a partner, but I have the impression that this is successful less often than not. I've tried giving up the kink and have found in no uncertain terms that it's not a viable option for me. So that leaves the second choice... seeking kink elsewhere.

I am lucky enough to have a partner who is open-minded and tries to really hear me and understand my feelings. It took quite a while to get here, but we're polyamorous now and it seems to be working well for us. Being able to pursue other relationships without secrecy has made all the difference. And it's one of those things that never would have happened if one of us hadn't had the courage to bring it up. So talk and compromise are major components in our relationship.

I know polyamory isn't for everyone. I feel extremely fortunate that it's working well for us.

Mary said...

I would say that it may be hard to totally convert a vanilla, but that a spouse that seeks your pleasure will be willing to play. It may be easiser if you tried role play to start - perhaps relieveing the spanker of any quilt that spanking his true love would bring. You could play someone he actually would relish spanking. As with all things communication is the key. Good luck.

rose said...

a question asked often by my present roommate in her quest to understand my alternative sexual desires. i'm lucky to be in a place that allows me the freedom to choose my partners based on, besides other things, their involvement in bdsm.

if i had a partner that was vanilla, i would start by encouraging some reading to help them understand the feelings, the kink.......there's a book i ran across with a great section on how to convert a vanilla partner. i would also strive for a great deal of conversation on the subject, taking in both points of view and strive for some sort of way to at least try the kink.

if these things didn't work, i would probably broach the subject of possible outside the relationship play, for spankings.

giving up a relationship for spankings or other aspects of bdsm would seem a little harsh. however, knowing how deep those feelings run, it would eventually, i believe, hurt the relationship anyway. i've met too many men who have vanilla wives and are frustrated.....looking elsewhere behind her back. never a good thing. i've also met women just as frustrated and looking outside the marriage.

giving up the kink would seem smart in one way. however, if it's such an ingrained part of a person's desires, is that fair? a complicated question i think would need to be worked out between the two people involved. i'm not sure there's an easy or sure fire way to solve this one. but the beginnings......exlpaining the kink, opening a dialogue, reading are all good places to start.

Anonymous said...

My advice is be honest with your partner about your love of spanking. Technically we all star out vanilla, even us spankos, so it's likely that your partner, no matter how "vanilla" you think they are, is just as into spanking as your are, or at least willing to give it a try. And even if your partner's not totally into spanking, he or she might still be willing to try it, just as he or she would be willing to give anything sexual a try.

If your partner's not into spanking at all, and won't even give it a try, then you really need to evaluate how important spanking is to you. I wouldn't suggest looking outside your relationship, especially if the spanking is of a sexual nature, unless our partner is completely 100% in agreement, and even then, you really need to give it a lot of thought.


Frank Spanko said...

My Dear Bonnie -

A very thoughtful question indeed. I do believe that it is possible to convince a "vanilla" parter to become one who spanks. I do not think it is likely that you could convince them to be spanked.

If you are open and honest with your partner, I believe that they could become comfortable spanking you. You would have to start slowly and respond with sexual excitement so that your partner knows that you are enjoying the experience. You would also have to be willing to go the extra step to satisfy them sexually, including indulging their fantasies.

I, personally, would not leave a woman if I otherwise loved her in every way. Were Angela to not be a spanko, I'd still be married to and totally in love with her. I'm not sure how I would try to satisfy my desire for spanking. Perhaps I would attempt to discreetly paddle myself. However, if we had an otherwise satisfying sex life, I would suspect that I would not find the spanking urge overwhelming.


bratscorcher said...

You are generally facing a LOW probability of success with any conversion efforts. And "giving up the kink," is equal parts undesirable & impossible.

If one is early in a relationship and it looks like you are w/a vanilla, I recommend moving on. Don't bother to psychoanalyze or assign blame, just wish them well & move on.

If you are married and not in a position to be able to "move on," I think mary's suggestion above regarding role-playing is excellent. If you are, for example, a naughty schoolgirl and your husband learns that giving you a good scolding and spanking is going to lead to ravenously delicious experiences afterwards, then your showing up in the bedroom with your plaid pleated schoolgirl skirt, looking coy and presenting the paddle (or cane!) is probably going to have him panting like Pavlov's Dog in no time. (Hmm, maybe coversion is possible.) In any case, I all those struggling in such a situation the best.

Tigger said...

hey Bonnie,

I can speak from experience but I'd rather let Dante speak for himself... he was vanilla when we got together and boy, did he pick it up quickly in some respects but yet not so much in others... oh, he liked the spanking (my reaction) from the beginning but he had difficulty with causing me pain to bring me pleasure and still has some issues about the whole punishment spanking thing.

I think he will be of more help on this then me, so I'll defer to him...

Great topic, though, and my advice is, don't throw away the relationship or get it elsewhere (the same thing) and don't assume that your vanilla may not like a little flavoring...

Oh, and a special thanks to you and especially to Randy for your comments last night! (I replied to you there but will do so here, too, if just to say thanks muchos gracias to both of you!)


veronica said...

when my partner and i first started seeing each other i had never been spanked and he had never spanked anyone. he was pretty vanilla at first but now he's very willing to try anything i suggest (as long as i'm the one on the receiving end!!!). we don't have a DD relationship, ours is purely erotic. sex will alwasys follow a good spanking.

at first he had a difficult time with some things. he was afraid he was going to hurt me and the thought of inflicting pain on me really messed with his head a little bit. but when he learned that spanking was suck a big turn on for me he started to come around. anything that turns me on turns him on (like jeanmarie said, most men are horn-dogs LOL). since the spanking aspect of our relationship has blossomed he's told me that he never thought he could be so turned on by it or have so much fun with it.

like any other part of a loving relationship, spanking should be discussed and both parties needs and concerns need to be addressed. openness and honesty are very important. i wouldn't end my relationship if he was suddenly disinterested in spanking, i'd just want to know why. i'm very much in love and every other aspect of our sex life is great.

Anonymous said...

I kept my love of spanking a complete secret from my husband for 19 years. We tried a bit then but aging parents and other distractions caused us to let it die out. I have recently brought it up again and as before my wonderful vanilla husband has embraced the idea with relish.

I don't think that he know how much I desire it. And he may not realize that I might at some point want to explore a dd relationship (after the kids leave home) but he seems to be willing to read the blogs I suggest and explore, so what more could I ask for?! Yes, conversion seems possible. But if it wasn't I will sitll be with him for as long as he will have me.


Anonymous said...

Bonnie & MBS ROCK

Shimon said...

I Don,t know if this is the correct place to post this, and if it is not please forgive me. If there is any female in a rel;ationship with a vanilla partner who is interested in a non-sexual spanking relationship with a guy, I could be that guy.

Grace said...

Hi Bonnie,
This is such a complex question. There is no yes or no answer. It depends on the person your trying to convert. If that person is open to something like this, your going to have a much easier time converting. If this person doesn't like this type of thing, getting them to change probably won't happen. Sounds simple, but not really.

You can only convert a person if they want to be converted. If you keep trying and it doesn't work, it will only hurt your relationship. If there is no compromise to be made between the two of you, then you need to decide how important it truly is to you.

I converted Bossman with alot of talking, talking, talking. I wrote him alot of letters, I wrote him stories, and I shared stories that I read with him. There was alot of trial and error. There still is. This is something we work on daily. We also had to learn to compromise. What I wanted, may not be exactly the way it turns out, and that is ok. Sometimes things look much better on paper than they do when your try to do it.

I would never give up my relationship with Bossman for spanking. But that's just me. Bossman means more to me than spanking ever will.

For me, spanking is a fantasy. I am just lucky enough to live out my fantasy. Not everyone can say that.

Thanks for this question Bonnie. You've just given me something to write about in my own blog.

CeeCi said...

MoJo knew from the first moment he spoke with me that I was what he was looking for in a life partner. He knew and sensed things within me I'd never revealed to anyone let alone myself.

Slowly and patiently he introduced this seemingly vanilla woman to the beauty of her submissive nature. Gently, he guided me and introduced me to the wealth of information to be found online. I learned, I embraced, I grew and I crave much of what I've encountered.

I don't have any clue as to how to convert a vanilla lover except to lead with love. It's important that we share our sexual desires with our intimate partners. Denying them the knowledge of what we need really denies it for both people in the relationship. If our partner is unable to accept or participate in our form of play, then it is time to honestly look at the relationship. We cannot change another person. We can only change ourselves and if the partnership is unsatisfying then the questions will fall into place and the answers will present themselves.

Further, I agree with Paul, seeking to have any sexual need gratified outside of a committed relationship is dangerous and I would add, foolish. Very, very few people have the ability to view any sexual contact as "casual" or "scratching an itch." From my own experiences, too many people get hurt when one partner steps outside the relationship for any reason.

Thank you for another thought-provoking question, Bonnie. I hope I didn't sound to preachy with my words. As Paul. said, "tread carefully, here be dragons."

Mistress Sky said...

You know, Bonnie, being a Domme, I don't feel qualified to comment, because I love both spanking a subbie and being spanked by the Raven. I wonder if when you broach the subject to a vanilla partner, they'd just think you were downright kinky and blow you out (I suspect this would be so in many cases in the UK, as we're discouraged from being liberal/liberated). If it's that important a need, it must surely be addressed, maybe the submissive wife should try a little role reversal in the bedroom? This is probably not very helpful - sorry, Scarlett got me thinking too much.
Sky x

Kittygirl said...

I think it is easier to be a spanko or convert a vanilla now , than at any other time in history, because of wonderful blogs like this. If it weren't for all the words and ponderings from bloggers all over, I may not have come to terms with my kinky desires. Spanking is becoming more mainsteam. As spanking becomes more accepted, non spankos will feel more comfortable with exploring spanking. What has worked for me is....getting the guts to tell my partner my needs, combining spanking with lots of blow jobs.

Scarlett said...

I have been popping in and out of here all day to read the comments and thoughts people have left and have even received a couple of emails from people reading here. Also the stats for my site have been unusually high today! lol!

I have to agree with kittygirl (waving up to her) that blogs such as this and the internet in general have opened up a whole new perspective enabling people to accept their kinks as normal and healthy.

Mistress Sky's idea about role reversal is an option i had not considered, but the idea does leave me cold! I think i know deep down that i can only release the submissive i have within me with the one that i love (my husband) and with anyone else it is a pale carbon copy of the real me, because the foundation stones of love and trust implicit in a D/s relationship can only be given unreservedly to that one person.

Thank you to everyone who has posted here today for their thoughts and big thanks to you Bonnie for a really interesting topic.

Scarlett xxx

kk said...

been there tried that. you can not make good wine with bad grapes.

i ask my vanilla hubby to spank me once and i thought he was going to call the guys in the white coats to come pick me up.

i was sick and needed help. well i found help but not the kind he was thinking of.

Anonymous said...

My wife and I were high shool sweeties, got married post college, neither of us have ever seriously dated anyone else. I did not know I was kinky or that she was vanilla (a mixed marriage?). Our evolution into whatever it is that we are now has happened extremely gradually.

I consider myself very lucky to have a wife who is willing to endulge almost my every fantasy, even when they are not her own. The only problem that it ever causes is that the more we 'play' the more I want to, and for her it is about the oppisite.

We had been married about 15 years the first time I spanked her (on her 39th birthday), her response was, "after 15 years of tying me up I was wondering if you would ever get around to that!"

Sex in general, and kink specifically, are only a part of what we have together. If she told me she never wanted to play again I would throw my toys away. Thankfully, I get to have the love of my life, and a willing bottom to ocasionally smack as well!

Thanks for the question,


Anonymous said...

Hi I am new to this blog but I found your qeustion so very interesting as I am in the process of trying to find a non vanilla partner as I am separated now for 4 years and that started becuse It was not just spanking but sex in general and wanting to talk about it openly and honsetly and spanking among other things all that I got was that I was a pervert and she was being forced to be a performer and I was wired for even wanting to thing about anythin other than vaniila rtelationship and the same ole same ole well sorry but that is not me and so here Iam finding myself looking and trying to find a non vanilla play partner at least for now and see hwer it goes but living in minnesota seeems like the impossible as a spanko I have been looking for a while now without sucess so that is my answer to the question

jade said...

My vanilla beau spanks me because he knows it turns me on--and he likes doing that. I introduced him to it early in our relationship by sharing stories from the web that I found arousing. Now, he has become an expert spanker...almost, too good sometimes.....;-)

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